Air-to-Air dogfighter champ?
What about the ultimate Tomcat ? the F14D
With those big GE engines and that amazing wing from what I understand nothing could touch it, sad that it's gone
With those big GE engines and that amazing wing from what I understand nothing could touch it, sad that it's gone
Last edited by stilton; 24th Feb 2013 at 11:08.
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F6F Hellcat
Many talk about Spitfires, P51D, F4U and various Gerry types, but the king of WW2 was the F6F Hellcat. In just over two years’ service 1943 to 1945 it claimed over 5,000 EA for the loss of less than 300 of its own, a combat ratio of 19 to 1 which is not bad. The aircraft is often over looked by many of today’s history programmes, but it was built like a brick sh*t house, had an enormous range, armed to the teeth, and was docile to fly according to many reports. Its top end performance was 385 mph but it could use a lot of its power in the climb and could dog fight the Zero. It was the FA18 of its day, not the best combat aircraft in the world, but did its missions and proved it as an all-round combat aircraft.
Last edited by SCAFITE; 24th Feb 2013 at 13:04.
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As Courtney said the F15 and F16 are the better dogfighters than F18 on paper due to better thrust to weight and turning performance (2 circle).
Having fought the F16, F15 many times in the Super Hornet, as well as the Typhoon and F22, F18 has come off better against the 16,15 and Typhoon in my experience (stand fast completely clean F16!) on most occasions, due to bringing the fight to where it suits the Hornet. Pulling 9 g is not everything.
F22 just was not cricket however and appeared to defeat the laws of physics and all that is natural!
Having fought the F16, F15 many times in the Super Hornet, as well as the Typhoon and F22, F18 has come off better against the 16,15 and Typhoon in my experience (stand fast completely clean F16!) on most occasions, due to bringing the fight to where it suits the Hornet. Pulling 9 g is not everything.
F22 just was not cricket however and appeared to defeat the laws of physics and all that is natural!
Interesting numbers in this F-18 HUD… fly it like you stole it comes to mind:
…and just to make the debrief even more interesting:
…and just to make the debrief even more interesting:
Last edited by Just This Once...; 24th Feb 2013 at 14:42.
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Orca,
Believe that included me in another Harrier once - 'just a few degrees more.....ah, faded!'
I would like to state categorically that I have lost to just about everyone in Sea Harrier, Harrier and F-18.
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I would also like to state categorically that Red Air wouldn't ordinarily coach Blue Air into refining the notch!
I have a vague recollection we both ended up having to eke out the petrol a little after that one!
Happy days.
I have a vague recollection we both ended up having to eke out the petrol a little after that one!
Happy days.
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Here's a scenario.
Two fighters, at FL100, flying straight and level towards each other and when passing abeam, it's game on.
With 100 rounds each. Non gun cabs can have a podded gun fitted.
No other weapons allowed. Chaff and flares are permitted.
Pure, visual, turning gunfight.
Lets start with F-15 v F-16. Who wins?
Two fighters, at FL100, flying straight and level towards each other and when passing abeam, it's game on.
With 100 rounds each. Non gun cabs can have a podded gun fitted.
No other weapons allowed. Chaff and flares are permitted.
Pure, visual, turning gunfight.
Lets start with F-15 v F-16. Who wins?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
With 100 rounds each. Non gun cabs can have a podded gun fitted.
No other weapons allowed. Chaff and flares are permitted.
No other weapons allowed. Chaff and flares are permitted.
Pure, visual, turning gunfight.
Lets start with F-15 v F-16. Who wins?
Lets start with F-15 v F-16. Who wins?
Also old age and treachery will frequently triumph over youth and skill....
)
F6F's loss ratio was inevitably assisted by the fact that by late 1943 most of the decent Japanese stickmen were dead or (rarely) captured, and the aircraft were obsolete or obsolescent. The few decent aircraft the Japanese were able to field were hamstrung by tactics, inexperience and a lack of Avgas.
I don't think it was a better fighter aircraft than the P51D for instance (or others).
I don't think it was a better fighter aircraft than the P51D for instance (or others).
Last edited by Mk 1; 24th Feb 2013 at 22:50.
Question to all of the F-15, F-16, and F-18 fighter pilots out there...which jet holds the advantage in dogfighting
jwcook
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In that case the Sopwith Camel trumps it easily.
Credited with an unprecedented 1,300 to 3,000 aircraft kills (sources vary) during The Great War (1914-1918).
the others are all B/S
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In that case the Sopwith Camel trumps it easily.
Credited with an unprecedented 1,300 to 3,000 aircraft kills (sources vary) during The Great War (1914-1918).
the others are all B/S
I guess JWCOOK and his Camel stats forgot to read the question...
Last edited by TBM-Legend; 25th Feb 2013 at 02:19.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Green Flash, to repeat a classic call I heard during ACT ( amongst many others ) in the days prior to Fox 4.
Ac1: "Fox 1"
Ac2: "Chaff and flare, chaff and flare, continue".
Ac1: "Fox 2"
Ac2: "Chaff and flare, chaff and flare, continue".
Ac1: "Fox 3, chaff and flare that you bast*rd".
Ac1: "Fox 1"
Ac2: "Chaff and flare, chaff and flare, continue".
Ac1: "Fox 2"
Ac2: "Chaff and flare, chaff and flare, continue".
Ac1: "Fox 3, chaff and flare that you bast*rd".
Last edited by ORAC; 25th Feb 2013 at 06:31.
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Originally Posted by TBM Legend
I guess JWCOOK and his Camel stats forgot to read the question...
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend
The F-15 has most real kills. End of story...
The rest is B/S
The rest is B/S
I was asserting by my post re the Sopwith that it was obviously incorrect.
As others have pointed out there's more to it than just kills, who the opposition is and any disproportionate situational awareness would play a bigger part in squewing the win loss ratio's.
It would be interesting to hear what the result is when everything is equal.
Cheers
Might even be a few PPRuNers that have mixed it with the little Fokker 
Checking first that we weren't trapped in some sort of Final Countdown flashback, we both enjoyed the sight of the little red triplane blatting merrily along - it looked superb!
It was probably one of the handful of Fokker DR 1 replicas still flying in the UK.