WARNING! Contains Sharkey Porn...
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Remind me Courtney,
How many bombs could it get to the beach? What was it's ability to get high and FAST to employ it's Air to Air weapons? We all know the answers so why are we going round the buoy again! One can only hope that the "New Harrier" will be slightly more effective and not just another Air Show aircraft.
How many bombs could it get to the beach? What was it's ability to get high and FAST to employ it's Air to Air weapons? We all know the answers so why are we going round the buoy again! One can only hope that the "New Harrier" will be slightly more effective and not just another Air Show aircraft.
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Saw plenty of low ones.
Never saw a fast one...
But that's a lovely picture which is now my desktop background. Thanks SMT.
D2 -> Waah!
Never saw a fast one...
But that's a lovely picture which is now my desktop background. Thanks SMT.
D2 -> Waah!
Last edited by AdLib; 20th Feb 2013 at 17:31. Reason: To add Waah of course.
To be honest, Dominator, my real concern is that it won't be that much better. The SHAR was great at what it did and that's an old (and bonkerdly defunct now) platform. It was amazing value for money too. Apart from some expensive stealth technology (which may not pass the test of time) the performance isn't better enough to justify the price tag or the amount of amazing technology that's gone into it. In a way, it looks too much like an advanced SHAR.
I'm not anti-either, but I worry about the next one. But's all for another thread.
I'm not anti-either, but I worry about the next one. But's all for another thread.
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Code:
<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/40935850?autoplay=1" width="398" height="224" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>
Last edited by Pure Pursuit; 20th Feb 2013 at 19:17.
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Dominator,
To answer your questions -
1. How many bombs to the beach - enough when it mattered, and plenty for a small fighter. With an excellent radar and weapons systems (thanks to lower Hangar and his crew) it could also drop them with very good ballistic accuracy. Had it had the 540lb bomb sooner, it would have carried even more.
2. Ability to get high and fast to deploy its weapons - it could climb faster than most anything else and was fast enough (paired with SKW) to do the job. In any event, when it was retired, it was still able to give most any other fighter in the West a good go. Its JTIDS integration package (ditched when the jet was canned) would have given it another massive boost in combat effectiveness. Shame it didn't get the chance to use it.
Anyway, those are the answers I have. You've clearly got others. Hey, let's differ.
But calling the SHAR an 'Air Show aircraft' - beg to differ. It actually fought a shooting war against enemy aircraft in the air. And won.
Best wishes as ever to all those doing the job for real,
Engines
To answer your questions -
1. How many bombs to the beach - enough when it mattered, and plenty for a small fighter. With an excellent radar and weapons systems (thanks to lower Hangar and his crew) it could also drop them with very good ballistic accuracy. Had it had the 540lb bomb sooner, it would have carried even more.
2. Ability to get high and fast to deploy its weapons - it could climb faster than most anything else and was fast enough (paired with SKW) to do the job. In any event, when it was retired, it was still able to give most any other fighter in the West a good go. Its JTIDS integration package (ditched when the jet was canned) would have given it another massive boost in combat effectiveness. Shame it didn't get the chance to use it.
Anyway, those are the answers I have. You've clearly got others. Hey, let's differ.
But calling the SHAR an 'Air Show aircraft' - beg to differ. It actually fought a shooting war against enemy aircraft in the air. And won.
Best wishes as ever to all those doing the job for real,
Engines
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Well, that went well.
Allow me to post the link...
Kadena F-15 video - The DEW Line
Two videos on the page. The lower one being the better. I've worked with this lot, good operators.
Allow me to post the link...
Kadena F-15 video - The DEW Line
Two videos on the page. The lower one being the better. I've worked with this lot, good operators.
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Dominator,
Of course the FA2 couldn't go high and fast, but neither could the F3 really. Fast (very fast) I will grant you. But when the AIM-120 was asked the simple question 'High or fast? And it's British jets we're talking about so neither of them can do both!' It would always/usually/mainly answer 'Err - high please.'
I got to fire one and even chased an F3 firing one as well. (I kept up...but can't remember how!)
The Sea Jet was a great little platform with significant short comings. It had its day and a fine day it was. But even the most ardent fan would have to admit it would have been looking a little dated by now!
Of course the FA2 couldn't go high and fast, but neither could the F3 really. Fast (very fast) I will grant you. But when the AIM-120 was asked the simple question 'High or fast? And it's British jets we're talking about so neither of them can do both!' It would always/usually/mainly answer 'Err - high please.'
I got to fire one and even chased an F3 firing one as well. (I kept up...but can't remember how!)
The Sea Jet was a great little platform with significant short comings. It had its day and a fine day it was. But even the most ardent fan would have to admit it would have been looking a little dated by now!
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Would say an F-15 pilot try to stay out of the FA2's firing solution and wait until it runs out of fuel and then just fire an AIM-120 up the spout when it turns for home?
Last edited by dat581; 21st Feb 2013 at 04:09.
Dat, he might. Or he could significantly increase the range of his slammer by using his superior energy.
Orca, high AND fast is good for 120 (as above). F3 certainly could do both.
Orca, high AND fast is good for 120 (as above). F3 certainly could do both.
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SHAR - Blue Vixen - AIM120
OK, we all know the jet had its limitations but the update was a result of a MLU, that was de-scoped, to integrate a look down / shoot down capability after 82. Those reqt's again! Happy Days though....the SHAR always surprised. And to sign-off, for all the CV supporters, I have to recall some of JF's wise words:
'Better to stop, then land........ Happiness is V/STOL!'
'Better to stop, then land........ Happiness is V/STOL!'
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Courtney,
The F3 may have been able to get high and fast however, it took forever to get there, couldn't turn for toffee and would have been slammed in the climb most times. The turning radius and energy bleed seemed to prevent the crews from doing anything other than climb (slowly) in the commit.
I thought they gave in good account of themselves when taking the above into account but, the reality is that most other jets would get higher and faster before the F3 and shoot first.
Thankfully, Typhoon seems to have resolved that issue,
The F3 may have been able to get high and fast however, it took forever to get there, couldn't turn for toffee and would have been slammed in the climb most times. The turning radius and energy bleed seemed to prevent the crews from doing anything other than climb (slowly) in the commit.
I thought they gave in good account of themselves when taking the above into account but, the reality is that most other jets would get higher and faster before the F3 and shoot first.
Thankfully, Typhoon seems to have resolved that issue,
Pure Pursuit, it wasn't a rocket ship off the blocks, but we know that once we got it going it did better than most folks realised. I was slightly sceptical (especially coming from the F-15 to the F3) before I did my first high flyer, but from commit to engage (or ID) there was time to do it - especially being a long-range interceptor. Flying a high/super sonic stern VID was a challenge, but it could be done.
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 21st Feb 2013 at 17:51.
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WARNING! Contains Sharkey Porn...
Courtney Mil,
Like I said, I always thought that the crews have a bloody account of themselves despite the airframe. The fact that getting to height took a significant amount of effort took away many of the positives. I always suspected that, unless the Eagle guys missed a trick, the F3 would get splashed most of the time. That said, we often saw some seriously cunning and devious flying that made life difficult for the other side but, the results normally ended up the same. Not a slur on the crews at all, just the tiny wings!
Like I said, I always thought that the crews have a bloody account of themselves despite the airframe. The fact that getting to height took a significant amount of effort took away many of the positives. I always suspected that, unless the Eagle guys missed a trick, the F3 would get splashed most of the time. That said, we often saw some seriously cunning and devious flying that made life difficult for the other side but, the results normally ended up the same. Not a slur on the crews at all, just the tiny wings!
''Oh dear, comparing a Whistling Sh!tcan to a Tomcat, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear ''
This pic was taken over Kuwait in about 2000, just as the USAAF announced that there was no need for wet film recce anymore and binned all their cameras, because the F15E's radar was so good. Except that they found the image was attenuated too much by dust haze and the images were pants. So, some Vinten pods were borrowed from the Brits and put on the F14s who went and took traditional piccies. The FA2s, equipped with Link16 and AIM120s were their "shooters".
Role reversal if there ever was!
This pic was taken over Kuwait in about 2000, just as the USAAF announced that there was no need for wet film recce anymore and binned all their cameras, because the F15E's radar was so good. Except that they found the image was attenuated too much by dust haze and the images were pants. So, some Vinten pods were borrowed from the Brits and put on the F14s who went and took traditional piccies. The FA2s, equipped with Link16 and AIM120s were their "shooters".
Role reversal if there ever was!
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Oh dear, comparing a Whistling Sh!tcan to a Tomcat, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear
I've 'fought' Tomcats numerous times, including the TACTS ranges where bull**** was negated by video evidence
I have NEVER had an F14 get a 'kill' on me but the opposite is very true. I will grant you they look very pretty and their size made for impressive deck launches but that's where their 'awesomeness' ended. The Phoenix shot was easy to defeat and that was the end of their tricks. IF they ever tried turning with you you could chew them up in less than 2 circles and it was great to see what their intentions were with the wing sweep. Of course, I was never going to catch them when they blew through the fight, having failed to get a Phoenix shot off, but with all that lovely speed the leading edges were nectar for an IR-hungry missile.
As the Bombcat they were absolutely f*%#ing lousy and a complete waste of range slots.
So, for comparing a SHAR to a Tomcat, the looks go to the F14 but I know what I'd rather be in when it comes to fighting (and air shows). As for 'whistling ****cans', that term is a used to describe helicopters, not fixed wing.
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Courtney,
In my own spectatorial experience the F3 could get high and fast for one presentation and that was it. I never saw them maintain 30k and above for any length of time. Maybe it was a trick they were keeping up their sleeve...and as always I realise it's easy to win the debrief from one's own perspective.
I played 'drone' for a F3 dress rehearsal once (AIM-120 shot) and I remember that the shot was on the number going up through 30k ish very fast - but they then had to come back down - very fast. They also always used to fight without tanks - which I am sure was representative as they would have thrown them off in combat - but their endurance always seemed very short in that fit.
By happenstance a F3 chased my Fox 3 and asked politely if we could descend to hold when there was a snag with the range. I couldn't afford to drop down due fuel (Sea jet cost only 65 lbs/min above 30k) - they couldn't afford to stay up with me for the same reason. Being gentlemen and good eggs they stuck with me. Post shot they went home on a bingo profile just as Point Mugu declared itself IFR...poor b#ggers.
Anyway. I'm not slinging spears for the sake of it - if you flew a British aircraft in the period we're talking about - it had significant short comings, that's why we loved them - look at the morale on the Jag force! Awesome community, awesome blokes, somewhat sub-optimal platform...same as ours in the FA2 community...same as everyone else really!
Take care, fly safe.
In my own spectatorial experience the F3 could get high and fast for one presentation and that was it. I never saw them maintain 30k and above for any length of time. Maybe it was a trick they were keeping up their sleeve...and as always I realise it's easy to win the debrief from one's own perspective.
I played 'drone' for a F3 dress rehearsal once (AIM-120 shot) and I remember that the shot was on the number going up through 30k ish very fast - but they then had to come back down - very fast. They also always used to fight without tanks - which I am sure was representative as they would have thrown them off in combat - but their endurance always seemed very short in that fit.
By happenstance a F3 chased my Fox 3 and asked politely if we could descend to hold when there was a snag with the range. I couldn't afford to drop down due fuel (Sea jet cost only 65 lbs/min above 30k) - they couldn't afford to stay up with me for the same reason. Being gentlemen and good eggs they stuck with me. Post shot they went home on a bingo profile just as Point Mugu declared itself IFR...poor b#ggers.
Anyway. I'm not slinging spears for the sake of it - if you flew a British aircraft in the period we're talking about - it had significant short comings, that's why we loved them - look at the morale on the Jag force! Awesome community, awesome blokes, somewhat sub-optimal platform...same as ours in the FA2 community...same as everyone else really!
Take care, fly safe.