RAF Avalanche deaths
RAF MRS not allowed on the hill in winter without AVDs
The question remains - were the people on this RAFMA trip wearing them? Reading between the lines of the Daily Record article, it would appear not because the rescuers were using a dog to search for them.
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RAF MRS wear them as much for their own safety as those they might be rescuing. You are right they are rarely used in the UK, more's the pity speaking as a former MRS member who has dug out and carried off the bodies of avalanche victims whilst on the team in the UK.
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Trim Stab:
A few points, Avalanche Transceivers are not generally worn in the UK by anyone climbing or walking as it simply not a UK norm, the exceptions to this rule are either MRT's or Ski Tourers who do tend to wear them as a matter of course, this clearly may well change in the future given the present trend. Of note on this subject Glenmore Lodge (the Scottish national mountain training centre) do not issue them to students and instead prefer to advocate the avoidance of avalanche hazards and terrain.
Your regular quoting of the Daily Record article also demonstrates why there is at present a huge uprising within UK mountaineering circles against the way in which the press are reporting these incidents. The press as ever have written complete drivel on the subject and none of it can be used to determine the cause of this incident, nor the experience levels of those involved.
Please remember that the UK is a very different mountain environment to the continent and as such the hazards are not always what they seem!
A few points, Avalanche Transceivers are not generally worn in the UK by anyone climbing or walking as it simply not a UK norm, the exceptions to this rule are either MRT's or Ski Tourers who do tend to wear them as a matter of course, this clearly may well change in the future given the present trend. Of note on this subject Glenmore Lodge (the Scottish national mountain training centre) do not issue them to students and instead prefer to advocate the avoidance of avalanche hazards and terrain.
Your regular quoting of the Daily Record article also demonstrates why there is at present a huge uprising within UK mountaineering circles against the way in which the press are reporting these incidents. The press as ever have written complete drivel on the subject and none of it can be used to determine the cause of this incident, nor the experience levels of those involved.
Please remember that the UK is a very different mountain environment to the continent and as such the hazards are not always what they seem!
Your regular quoting of the Daily Record article also demonstrates why there is at present a huge uprising within UK mountaineering circles against the way in which the press are reporting these incidents. The press as ever have written complete drivel on the subject and none of it can be used to determine the cause of this incident, nor the experience levels of those involved.
It was me who asked if the RAFMA party were carrying AVDs and whether they were trained in their use. I expect that the inquest will ask the same questions. The MOD has a legal and moral obligation to minimise unreasonable risk when providing adventure training (remember Trevor Jones?) and I expect that lessons will be learnt here. AVDs really should be obligatory on MOD winter mountain adventure training, just as lifejackets are obligatory on MOD kayaking adventure training, or helmets on MOD climbing adventure training.
Given the reported snow conditions at the time - "like liquid concrete" - it is unlikely that the victims would have survived in this particular accident even if the other members of the party were properly equipped and trained with DVAs, probes and shovels. However, I hope that this will lead to a change in SOPs. The next MOD avalanche victims may be caught in the sort of avalanche which is survivable - as long as other members of the party are equipped and trained to carry out an immediate rescue.
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Would there be an inquest? Scotland does not have a system of inquests, and I can't remember if they would automatically apply to military personnel killed in Scotland?
Would there be an inquest? Scotland does not have a system of inquests, and I can't remember if they would automatically apply to military personnel killed in Scotland?
As these tragic avalanche deaths are presumably not suspicious or unexplained, and possibly not directly in the course of employment, my guess is that an FAI in this case would not be mandatory. There have been other avalanche deaths in Scotland this season, as you know, so that may be a factor in the decision whether or not to hold one in this case.
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Your regular quoting of the Daily Record article also demonstrates why there is at present a huge uprising within UK mountaineering circles against the way in which the press are reporting these incidents. The press as ever have written complete drivel on the subject and none of it can be used to determine the cause of this incident, nor the experience levels of those involved.
It was me who asked if the RAFMA party were carrying AVDs and whether they were trained in their use. I expect that the inquest will ask the same questions. The MOD has a legal and moral obligation to minimise unreasonable risk when providing adventure training (remember Trevor Jones?) and I expect that lessons will be learnt here. AVDs really should be obligatory on MOD winter mountain adventure training, just as lifejackets are obligatory on MOD kayaking adventure training, or helmets on MOD climbing adventure training.
Given the reported snow conditions at the time - "like liquid concrete" - it is unlikely that the victims would have survived in this particular accident even if the other members of the party were properly equipped and trained with DVAs, probes and shovels. However, I hope that this will lead to a change in SOPs. The next MOD avalanche victims may be caught in the sort of avalanche which is survivable - as long as other members of the party are equipped and trained to carry out an immediate rescue.
RAFMA is a sports club under the RAF Sports Board. Like the vast majority of other mountaineering and climbing clubs in England and Wales, it is affiliated to the British Mountaineering Council. It follows the BMC's guidance.
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RIP to fallen comrades.
I know only what I've read in the press, which is usually drivel, but it seems to have occurred in the vicinity of the Chalamain Gap. I don't know if it was in it, or near it.
For those not familiar, this is a about a 400 metre, narrow, shallow, rubble filled gorge which lies on the north exit of the Larig Ghru and must be transitted if you are making for the Sugar Bowl Car Park (you can avoid it if head direct to the CoylumBridge Hotel).
It is a ****ing awful 400 metres. On a dry day it's an awkward stumble over the rocks and boulders. On a wet day its a slippery hell hole. No idea what it's like in snow...I wouldn't go near it mid winter.
Last time I was there (just before midnight mid June) I noticed a new path that seemed to head up and round it, but I didn't take because it was dark and I was familiar with the old route. Now I'm wondering if they were on that path, cresting on side of the gorge, rather than going thru' the middle???
Trim Stab, this is a pretty unique feature, the floor of the gorge is 700 metres and the sides are about 50-60 metres up, although the south eastern flank does slope up much higher to the ridge coming off Lurcher's Crag.
There have been nine fatalities in the highlands in 2013. I am reminded of a quote by Cameron McNeish in one of my Munro books..
"There is no hillwalking in the highlands in winter. It is all mountaineering"
I know only what I've read in the press, which is usually drivel, but it seems to have occurred in the vicinity of the Chalamain Gap. I don't know if it was in it, or near it.
For those not familiar, this is a about a 400 metre, narrow, shallow, rubble filled gorge which lies on the north exit of the Larig Ghru and must be transitted if you are making for the Sugar Bowl Car Park (you can avoid it if head direct to the CoylumBridge Hotel).
It is a ****ing awful 400 metres. On a dry day it's an awkward stumble over the rocks and boulders. On a wet day its a slippery hell hole. No idea what it's like in snow...I wouldn't go near it mid winter.
Last time I was there (just before midnight mid June) I noticed a new path that seemed to head up and round it, but I didn't take because it was dark and I was familiar with the old route. Now I'm wondering if they were on that path, cresting on side of the gorge, rather than going thru' the middle???
Trim Stab, this is a pretty unique feature, the floor of the gorge is 700 metres and the sides are about 50-60 metres up, although the south eastern flank does slope up much higher to the ridge coming off Lurcher's Crag.
There have been nine fatalities in the highlands in 2013. I am reminded of a quote by Cameron McNeish in one of my Munro books..
"There is no hillwalking in the highlands in winter. It is all mountaineering"
My own instructor at Glenmore Lodge told me that the Alps in winter are only preparation for the Highlands. He was of the opinion that only Scandanavia provided more challenging conditions in Europe.
Last time I was there (just before midnight mid June) I noticed a new path that seemed to head up and round it, but I didn't take because it was dark and I was familiar with the old route. Now I'm wondering if they were on that path, cresting on side of the gorge, rather than going thru' the middle???
I agree with your description of the Chalamain Gap. Some here will recognise it as a handy route between the Rothiemurchus Hut and the high tops.
