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PAS Offer and FRI's?

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PAS Offer and FRI's?

Old 10th Feb 2013, 11:41
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Uncle,

I am very certain of my facts, as are Manning. The JSP remains extant and if you manage to leave before the 5 year point (say via admin discharge) then the rules prescribed still apply.

However, to be accepted on to PAS (RAF) you have to sign a ROS that effectively surrenders your 'PVR rights' as has been described in this thread. This is the relatively new bit that sits between the JSP and your acceptance (or otherwise) of PATOS.

Back in the day once an offer was given it could not be withdrawn and if you had the offer at 'first look' you had a period of years to make your final choice. You now have to accept or decline within a couple of months (although Manning have applied a little flexibility with this last bit for some special cases).
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 11:48
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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New PATOS are being offered (to every pilot beyond 3 years to IPP, so it would seem), but with a ROS requirement of 5 years from the start of your new TOS, which is a different arguement.
Hi Jambo, long time no hear.

The additional kicker is that on acceptance of the offer you loose the IPP (eg 38/16) instantly. One of my guys is now swapping emails with Manning to discuss what would happen if he PVR'd post his acceptance but before his 38/16 point and formally starting on PATOS (which in his case is 2.5 years away).
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 12:00
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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JTO,
I'll take your word for it as the offer wasn't out when I left work on Friday, I haven't seen the text this year, only going by last year's offer which still quoted the 5yr RoS but, I believe, when pressed they said the PVR could be upheld...as I said, we need that clarifying in writing.
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 17:09
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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So when is the detail of the NEM and FAFPS going to be announced, then the hypothetical plans and concerns can be converted into real ones?

SDSR 10 unsettled Service Personnel and their families, followed by a steady drip of redundancies, followed by impending NEM and FAFPS for last year and this one, with SDSR 15 to look forward to around the same time as a General Election.

All while being on enduring operations, and pulling rabbits out of hats with Olympics, strikes and contingencies like Libya and Mali.

Last edited by MaroonMan4; 10th Feb 2013 at 17:10.
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 17:59
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Regarding the NEM, someone (apologies, I forget who) posted here recently pointing out that the NEM isn't a single event that will irrevocably change everything. We won't go from the status quo to NEM on the stroke of midnight on one day. Rather, the NEM is a range of measures, incorporating Projects ZEUS, APOLLO and SIRIUS (I think), and then looking towards changes in things like accommodation policy etc etc.

So it's already here with the apparent introduction of main and executive stream roles for senior officers, and other changes to career "management."

As for FAPS, I thought the detail out there was pretty accessible. There are some questions to do with exactly how it integrates with your AFPS75/05 preserved rights for those of us with potentially 20+ years to serve, but in terms of working out how much of a pension I'll actually get I think it's all there in the DINs. Guys receiving PAS offers now are likely to be one of the few groups who could benefit from AFPS15 if I've done my maths right.
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 18:59
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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5F6B,
The major thing for me is how and when that pension is awarded - if, as suspected, at 55 you only get your AFPS75/05 portion then wait til 60 for the additional AFPS15 portion, then we have an issue.

There will be a scheme to cover the gap, but as yet the detail for that is unseen (please speak up if ive missed it somewhere). That's the detail I'm waiting for to see if I need to get a paper-round aged 55...
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 20:03
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Tescos should be recruiting. Can't imagine doing the deed bag drag past 55 to be honest.
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 20:22
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Do FTRS retire at 55? Maybe they'll look at some sort of active reserves thing to plug the gap. I worked with an AvO once who flew until his 60s.
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 22:34
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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I've stared at the rather confusing FAFPS DIN until my eyes bled, yet I'm still not 100% certain on what my pension will look like post 2015. I'll have 7 yrs PAS on AFPS75 and then a further 10, possibly more on AFPS15. Where can I work it out?
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Old 11th Feb 2013, 07:11
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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You can't - that's the point. Does anyone know anybody who is going to take them up on this? 4/4 declined on this Sqn.
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Old 14th Feb 2013, 00:14
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone got an e-mail yet? Any news?
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Old 14th Feb 2013, 11:48
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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High Expect,

Out of interest, is that ME, FJ or RW (or 22 Gp?)
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Old 14th Feb 2013, 20:42
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Do FTRS retire at 55?
They can retire whenever they like, but to get an immediate pension under the Reserve Forces Pension Scheme they need to serve to age 60 or above...up to 65 for some posts if they like.
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Old 18th Feb 2013, 14:11
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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I believe Manning has dropped the ball here. They are currently telling guys with 2 to 3 years left that they are useless to them if they do not extend with the PA offer.

Guys with lots of experience are going to be lost on this one - and even if manning come back with something more positive, this 'bluff' of theirs will leave alot of bitterness.

Once again, the RAF fail to think of it's people, despite demanding so much from them for the last 10 years +.
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Old 18th Feb 2013, 17:36
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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3BB, what's happening to these guys; are they being threatened with some highly unpleasant last tour if they don't sign up to PAS?

Only spoken in detail to one guy at work who's been offered it, and while it comes with a 5 year ROS, I'm not sure what he's been told will likely happen if he doesn't accept.
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Old 18th Feb 2013, 18:01
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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5F6B,

I suppose it's an extension of the "if they all take it we can't afford it" argument; in expanding the bracket this year, there are some in the group offered without Qs or imminent promotion prospects.

What would happen if a majority accepted? Could the wider Manning plot then cope with a mass of PAS on the sqns? Admitedly, this is highly unlikely to be a factor with the current offer but I suspect that Manning are being very careful in making promises.

Either way, it's not exactly a savoury offer to those in that predicament.

Also, isn't there a QR about getting preference of last tour (ops-permitting)?
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Old 18th Feb 2013, 18:06
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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If you guys aren't offered PAS to age 60, then you aren't even being offered the chance to work to the bitter end and get a full pension (on AFPS 15). Can you imagine if that happened to teachers, nurses etc - the press would have a field day?
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Old 19th Feb 2013, 03:26
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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5f6b...

It's not quite life or death, but the guys I know feel very let down. 2 guys will have 2 years remaining when coming off their current tour and AC type; they had been promised 1 year extensions to cover a ROS, but now told that doesn't apply even though they had done all that was asked.

They have been told to expect a ground tour for their remaining years;even though they are highly experienced and (were) keen guys.

They of course have the option not to take it- just a sad way to end a career....
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Old 19th Feb 2013, 06:44
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Also, isn't there a QR about getting preference of last tour (ops-permitting)?
.....will an overused Manning get-out clause. I am told that FTD (Final tour of duty) days are well and truly over as it is already unsustainable due to diminished numbers of staff eroding Manning flexibility. I suspect that any documentation in support of FTD entitlement will be descretely deleted in the coming years.
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Old 19th Feb 2013, 06:55
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Ginsters,
Surely if 'they all take it we can't afford it' notion is outweighed by the savings in having to recruit and train new aircrew. By increasing ratio of PAS you actually save as the increase in salary and pension of a PAS transferee doesn't equate to the x million it costs to train a newbie. It makes sense to me. A slightly ageing population of aircrew with a greater depth of experience.
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