Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

C-17 landing at wrong airport - crew fatigue?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

C-17 landing at wrong airport - crew fatigue?

Old 26th Jan 2013, 19:11
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SOMEWHERE
Posts: 278
Vampire's landed at Sleap instead of Shawbury a few times, few years ago
a student pilot in his Cessna landed at Shawbury instead of Sleap
scarecrow450 is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2013, 19:34
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,035
There are two types of pilot, those who have mis-identified an airfield and those who have yet to do so. I don't think I know of any pilot with significant experience who has not confused the identity of an airfield to some degree.

If you are fortunate the confusion is not critical, the error is quickly realised and corrected and you learn a valuable lesson. If you are unlucky the answer to the question "Do you think anyone noticed?" is a resounding "Yes!".

YS

Been there seen it, done it and watched others do it.
Yellow Sun is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2013, 20:54
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,550
...a student pilot in his Cessna landed at Shawbury instead of Sleap
Whereas in 1974, a Gnat QFI took control from his student (who was flying an actual weather diversion to Shawbury) - only to land at Sleap...

I don't think I know of any pilot with significant experience who has not confused the identity of an airfield to some degree.
Indeed so. Sorry, Withybush, it was me in 1976...... But thanks for being good enough not to complain.. Hope you liked the blue note!
BEagle is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2013, 20:58
  #24 (permalink)  
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,642
The reports go on to state - it is not clear on what basis or where they obtained their information - that the first airfield the crew saw was Tampa Executive which unfortunately they mis-identified as Peter O Knight, and therefore "knew" that the next airfield on track "must be" MacDill.
The trouble with that hypothesis is if you are over Tampa Exec, but think you are over Peter O Knight, then expect to see McDill on the nose you are heading exactly 180 degrees out from what you think you are. Peter O Knight is in the west side of Tampa Bay (a pretty substantial water feature), McDill is on the east side of Tampa Bay at the end of a prominent peninsular, Tampa Exec is landlocked in the junction of 2 major highways. Whatever anyone was doing in that cockpit, it didn't involve any use of a map or a compass.

Last edited by Two's in; 26th Jan 2013 at 20:59.
Two's in is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2013, 21:00
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: AndyCappLand
Age: 98
Posts: 7,646
S76Heavy (#4) and Yellow Sun (#22) have the right of it. It happens, it's happened before, it'll happen again.

Done it myself, no excuse, got four extra weekend SDOs from the Station Commander (full story some day on "Earning Pilot's Brevet in WWII" - if I live that long !)
Danny42C is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2013, 21:06
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,897
Leeming and Dishforth was another favourite, both 16/34, 10 miles down the road (A1) from each other)

I was joining at Leeming when a CFS JP (with the Chief Instructor on board, no less) called downwind and then finals

ATC "Don't have you visual, check you're not at Dishforth"

pause

(no callsign) "HOW embarrassing!"
Fox3WheresMyBanana is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2013, 23:25
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Warrington, UK
Posts: 3,435
It does, however, state that in the days prior to the incident the crew “flew into complex airfields, dealt with multiple mission changes and flew long mission legs with several stops each day.”

The mission for the botched flight, which originated in Rome, had been changed several times before the final assignment of MacDill came about one hour before the Globemaster departed on July 20.

Several factors, including previous time zone changes, contributed to the pilot and copilot not operating at full mental capacity. The report stated that the pilot was acting at a 79 percent cognitive effectiveness and the copilot 89 percent. In comparison, a 0.08 percent blood alcohol level reduces the cognitive capacity to 70 percent.
From a CRM Human Factors view, the above pretty much nails it I think, especially with the 12 hour flight home. Fatigue is insidious. It just creeps up on you without you noticing.

The report showed no record of who was in charge of the airplane, nor does it indicate whether any disciplinary action was taken against the crew,
Embarrassment at poor supervision perhaps.
MightyGem is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2013, 23:52
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Axminster Devon
Age: 79
Posts: 157
Misident Tengah/Seletar

@tankertrashnav #9

You mention a Javelin landing at Seletar instead of Tengah in 1967.

As a Tengah habitue 1962-64, I wonder if the story is more complicated than for the other misident cases. I remember Seletar as being relatively small and old-fashioned. Current Seletar sites put the runway on 03/21, which is significantly different to Tengah's 18/36.

Is there a really interesting story to be told ?

best wishes

R
rlsbutler is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2013, 04:28
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 258
Two's in

...if you are over Tampa Exec, but think you are over Peter O Knight, then expect to see McDill on the nose you are heading exactly 180 degrees out from what you think you are...
If you are over Tampa Executive airport, heading roughly South West (having approached from the North East) but think you are over Peter O Knight airport, then the airport that is now visible some 8 miles ahead and roughly on track - which is in fact Peter O Knight airport - could easily be mis-identified as MacDill AFB.


...Peter O Knight is in the west side of Tampa Bay...McDill is on the east side of Tampa Bay...
No, it isn't, have a look here

Peter O Knight airport is about 4 miles to the North East of MacDill AFB.

Tampa Executive airport is about 8 miles to the North East of Peter O Knight airport, and around 12 miles to the North East of MacDill AFB.

Is it possible that you also may just have mis-identified an airport?

Best Regards

Bellerophon
Bellerophon is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2013, 07:02
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: South Africa
Age: 82
Posts: 1,327
A Lindholme station flight Anson was landed at Finningly circa 1955. The really embarrassed driver was the Lindholme Station Master!
ian16th is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2013, 07:26
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Glorious West Sussex
Age: 72
Posts: 1,014
BOAC Comet at Juhu instead of Bombay (sic).

Woodford instead of Manchester ... similar runway direction .. USAF F111 does sunny Sunday airshow at EGCC .... Air France Caravelle seen going around and jinking right for Manch...

The list is endless...
TyroPicard is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2013, 08:43
  #32 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,584
I am not in possession of all the factors in this 'fatigue'/tired incident, nor does it really matter which field is where or who has been where in the past. The very basic lesson this crew appear to have forgotten is when you feel completely knackered, either don't try a visual, let George take the strain, or if you do, back up the aids for the runway of choice. There really was no excuse I can see.
BOAC is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2013, 09:20
  #33 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,195
A lot more common than you might think - The Legacy of Douglas Corrigan: "Wrong Way" Landings By Commercial Airliners
ORAC is online now  
Old 27th Jan 2013, 20:24
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Warrington, UK
Posts: 3,435
when you feel completely knackered,
The trouble is, that when you feel completely knackered, you don't always think logically. Partly why a Colgan Air crew pulled back on the stick instead of pushing forward when the stall warning sounded, and subsequently crashed the aircraft.
MightyGem is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2013, 21:02
  #35 (permalink)  
si.
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Northumberland
Age: 48
Posts: 49

Leeming and Dishforth was another favourite, both 16/34, 10 miles down the
road (A1) from each other)





I was joining at Leeming when a CFS JP (with the Chief Instructor on board,
no less) called downwind and then finals





ATC "Don't have you visual, check you're not at Dishforth"





pause





(no callsign) "HOW embarrassing!"
Column back and power on for a short while, and you might just be able to blag it...

Last edited by si.; 27th Jan 2013 at 21:03.
si. is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2013, 22:41
  #36 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,584
Originally Posted by MG
when you feel completely knackered, you don't always think logically.
- come on! You don't suddenly get 'completely knackered' - they were 12 hrs in transit. Let's try and make it a 'logical' step that when you know you are tired (and you will) you don't try fancy visuals into fields without backing up the aids - when you can - and they could.
BOAC is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2013, 00:17
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,509
That is a given, and I'm willing to wager electronic backup is part of their sop. The underlying question is why they did what they did.
West Coast is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2013, 12:27
  #38 (permalink)  

Gentleman Aviator
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Teetering Towers - somewhere in the Shires
Age: 70
Posts: 3,394
To add to the list, ISTR a VC-10 in 70/71 getting Sharjah and Dubai confused. Parallel runways a few miles apart and (in them days) not much else apart from the runways.

Can't remember whether it was BOAC, Gulf Air or CrabAir though ......

[edited to add:]

From the "Wrongway" link:

April 22, 1978 - A Maverick Air aircraft, bound for Tel Aviv, Israel (TLV), mistakenly lands at Beirut, Lebanon (BEY). See "Cargo Pilot Finds Wrong Airport," Washington Post, April 24, 1978.
... probably very lucky this mistake wasn't the other way round ........

As they say, I'm sure IDF would have "suitably counselled him on his error of judgement!"

Last edited by teeteringhead; 28th Jan 2013 at 12:42.
teeteringhead is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2013, 13:24
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wessex
Posts: 458
International flight checkers meet at Benson in the late 80's / early 90's cue foreign air force twin jet landing at Chalgrove, then does a rapid turn round to fly a couple of miles down the road to the correct place.
Rocket2 is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2013, 13:33
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 64
Posts: 3,962

However, it is surprising that the pilots of the heavy jet didn’t notice the
difference in the runway lengths. KTPF’s runway is only about one third of the
length of MacDill’s.
One would have thought that the Navigator would have said something....oh, just a minute.....
Wensleydale is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.