Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

AirTankerís first flight as an airline

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

AirTankerís first flight as an airline

Old 23rd Jan 2013, 07:06
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Island of Aphrodite
Age: 73
Posts: 530
AirTankerís first flight as an airline

This Voyager flew a couple of weeks ago as a civilian aircraft on Air Tanker's AOC.
http://www.airtanker.co.uk/news/airt...-as-an-airline

I wonder what callsign it used (did it borrow ASCOT).

Did it pay eurocontrol charges or was it exempt?

I wonder whether the bottom line cost to MOD was cheaper than using a chartered airliner or indeed using the same aircraft but with a military registration and military crew instead of the Registration G-VYGG

At Brize and Akrotiri was the PIC, Captain Scott or Sqd Ldr Scott (RAFVR)

Last edited by beerdrinker; 23rd Jan 2013 at 07:31.
beerdrinker is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2013, 07:23
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 4,760
No seatback IFE?
Dan Winterland is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2013, 07:55
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Several miles SSW of Watford Gap
Posts: 596
The aircraft is still appears to be in military covers.

IIRC international law (Hague Rules of Air Warfare Chapter 1) mandates that military aircraft are distinguished from civilian aircraft (public and private) by different markings.

So when flown in this role is it a military aircraft, a non-military aircraft exclusively employed on public service, or a private aircraft?

Last edited by Climebear; 23rd Jan 2013 at 08:03.
Climebear is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2013, 08:20
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,785
Amazing! PFI forces RAF to operate airliner at vast expense.
Just my opinion

OAP
Onceapilot is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2013, 08:24
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Several miles SSW of Watford Gap
Posts: 596
Originally Posted by BigGreenGilbert View Post
The aircraft is still appears to be in military covers.
You mean it's grey? No military markings in sight in the picture in the link!

BGG
Sorry you're right. The lighter circle next to the middle cabin door looked a bit like a subdued roundel rather than a porthole when viewed on my iPod's tiny screen.

What will happen when the fleet is on service. Will the paint shop be busy painting over RAF markings if the airframe is to be used commercially.? Or will airframe's swapping between military and civil roles happen relatively infrequently?
Climebear is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2013, 08:57
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 234
I'm led to believe that rotations from military to civil register will be fairly infrequent.
I can't help thinking that presentationaly it would have been a lot less confusing to all if they had simply painted the civil registered jets white. Less accusations of "having civies operating RAF aircraft" and it would make for rather less conspicuous arrivals/ departures at airfields around the world.

One noticeable positive point, the cabin crew look like a well turned out bunch. I'd rather be greeted by one of them at the door than an "under-tall" WAAF in overalls.
If PFI = punctual jet staffed by nice totty, I think we should have more of the same.

Last edited by Arty Fufkin; 23rd Jan 2013 at 09:00.
Arty Fufkin is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2013, 09:39
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,785
Ooo Arty, I don't think chartered airlines with considerable assets have much difficulty with punctuality or Totty. However, lets see this lot delivering troops into theatre. Oh no, they will just go to the nearest safe spot and, Albert will do the more risky bit.
Future Ops!?

OAP
Onceapilot is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2013, 10:41
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 234
I think you're missing the point old fruit!
These are civilian aircraft operated by civilian crews as charter aircraft in the same way as Monarch, air Seychelles and numerous others have flown MOD charter for the last umty ump years. I guess the advantage of the MOD having its own charter airline is the ability to plan long term rather than renegotiate contracts every few months, have guaranteed assets available even during the busy package holiday season, not to mention the advantages of having such an outfit embedded at the RAFs AT hub.
The reason for using civilians where possible on benign routes and military where required for the warlike stuff is pretty obvious. Civilans are cheaper than military folk. Sure, the RAF can, and did, do the Falklands airbridge, Calgary, Nairobi etc, but why would you? It's simply an extension of the principle of putting civvies in second line jobs that has been going on for years.

Intersting times.
Arty Fufkin is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2013, 13:19
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 245
I wonder what callsign it used (did it borrow ASCOT).
Callsign: TOWLINE, ICAO: TOW
andrewn is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2013, 14:11
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,785
Towline! There's a hope!

OAP
Onceapilot is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2013, 15:28
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Anglia
Posts: 1,999
I assume that it remains grey because it is easier to bung a few military-type stickers on it when needed rather than have to repaint the whole thing.

As for transfers from Civ to Mil - I think that could be rather quickly done. However, from Mil to Civ could be quite slow and probably quite expensive...?
Rigga is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2013, 17:14
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London Town
Posts: 166
and look who came home on that 1st flight..Welcome Home Harry..

Prince Harry Arrives In UK From Afghanistan
Blue Bottle is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2013, 08:48
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 31
The picture of the crew at Akrotiri seems to add credence to a rather scurrilous rumour, told to me by a colleague who knew Capt Scott in his civilian incarnation. Allegedly the soon-to-be DFO was rather too portly to be accepted as an RAFVR officer and thus was allocated a personal trainer by Air Tanker in an effort to make him slightly more svelte. Keep up the good work sir!

In my (limited) experience of DFOs, it's well worth rostering a training captain to go flying with them, just to try to keep them out of trouble, and not always successfully. I do hope that Captain Wales enjoyed his flight home.

Note to DFO and Air Tanker PR department [Pedant alert]:

It is the Civil Aviation Authority, not Civilian Aviation Authority. Are you really sure that you did your proving flight to Reykjavik airport (BIRK longest runway 5141') rather than the slightly larger Keflavik which is far more suited to A330 operations?

(Ex)Tristar FO

Last edited by L1011effoh; 24th Jan 2013 at 09:18.
L1011effoh is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2013, 09:03
  #14 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 78
Posts: 16,752
Originally Posted by Arty Fufkin View Post
I guess the advantage of the MOD having its own charter airline is the ability to plan long term rather than renegotiate contracts every few months.
Is this the old MOD we all knew and loved or a new model?
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2013, 11:25
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London
Age: 64
Posts: 345
Do the RAF still prefer rearward facing seats for Mil transports, just a thought .
Dysonsphere is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2013, 11:43
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,785
How long before Air Tanker claim the PFI process was unfair / costs have changed / delay cost lots of dosh / cant complete contract without going bust and so, need a greater payment per year. I give it 5 years

OAP
Onceapilot is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2013, 13:12
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 44
easy to knock but getting a civvy widebody ticket from scratch from the Campaign Against Aviation is no mean feat.

Whilst the numbers involved might be, to the outside, eye watering, have you any idea how much the various UK/US/Portuguese etc airlines have underwritten their entire operations out of the taxpayers pockets.
Not to mention various charter brokerages who have made themselves millions over the years sucking cash out of the MoD due to lack of internal capability. At least the costs are more transparent with Air Tanker, and no, I dont work for them.
Nantucket Sleighride is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2013, 13:20
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 1,916
Do the RAF still prefer rearward facing seats for Mil transports, just a thought .
Isn't the VC10 the only RAF transport a/c to use rearward facing seats of late?

RAF Tristars, to the best of my knowledge, have never had them.

Last edited by The Helpful Stacker; 24th Jan 2013 at 13:20.
The Helpful Stacker is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.