Iran A-Bomb Complete
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I always find it amusing that WE can be trusted with an A bomb but of course no-one else can - until they get one - like France, India, Israel, Pakistan, China..........
If I was an Iranian politician I'd think it was an absolute requirement to get one ASAP and damn the cost - they are surrounded with people who are armed with the things.
If I was an Iranian politician I'd think it was an absolute requirement to get one ASAP and damn the cost - they are surrounded with people who are armed with the things.
Yep, if I was Iranian I would want my government to get nukes too.
Just look what the US/UK did to Iraq - I bet they wouldn't have dared invade if Saddam had a nuke. Also, Israel has nukes and has a rich recent history of attacking its neighbours.
Iran, on the other hand, has never attacked anybody since biblical times.
Whilst I would prefer that Iran doesn't have nukes, I think we should re-examine our own foreign policy, rather than demonising Iran..
Just look what the US/UK did to Iraq - I bet they wouldn't have dared invade if Saddam had a nuke. Also, Israel has nukes and has a rich recent history of attacking its neighbours.
Iran, on the other hand, has never attacked anybody since biblical times.
Whilst I would prefer that Iran doesn't have nukes, I think we should re-examine our own foreign policy, rather than demonising Iran..
Last edited by Trim Stab; 9th Apr 2013 at 18:52.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
But he had WMD and long range missiles didn't he?
He did?
Oh, he didn't, sorry pardon.
As said on the Fat Boy thread, capability and intentions are two different things. It might be tempting to use your one bomb on a use it or lose it basis, but when the other side has a good chance of a shoot down and your success probability is unknown, you would be on a hiding to nothing being outgunned by everyone else.
He did?
Oh, he didn't, sorry pardon.
As said on the Fat Boy thread, capability and intentions are two different things. It might be tempting to use your one bomb on a use it or lose it basis, but when the other side has a good chance of a shoot down and your success probability is unknown, you would be on a hiding to nothing being outgunned by everyone else.
PN, he didn't have WMD? Is that public domain information or inside information? The facts are that the IAEA et al didn't find any and the "dodgy dossier" made claims that were not backed up by fact in public. I'm NOT a conspiracy theorist, but I don't think anyone can say that he didn't have WMD. Perhaps I'm splitting rabbits.
Your last para is spot on. Wise words as ever.
Your last para is spot on. Wise words as ever.
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 9th Apr 2013 at 19:23.
Sorry, PN. I normally love sardonic. I just missed it. What is sardonic? I mean, I know, obviously, but my friend was asking. 
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 9th Apr 2013 at 20:44.
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If they have a "berm" surely it can only be a good thing - after all Mr Cameron was only last week singing the praises of the efficacy of our nuclear deterrent. The more detterents in the world = safer world. We should actually be helping all states acquire the deterrent then we can all benefit from them
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Iran, on the other hand, has never attacked anybody since biblical times
On the other hand....the muslim nut jobs that seem to run that country have a clearly stated aim to "wipe Israel off the map".
I have not see a single video of Ahmadinejad making such a statement. All the sources I have seen of that statement are from US right-wing press and Israel. Try reading here:
Israel: “Wiped off The Map”. The Rumor of the Century, Fabricated by the US Media to Justify An All out War on Iran | Global Research
Last edited by Trim Stab; 10th Apr 2013 at 05:15.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Looking at those photos suddenly brought back memories of army training almost 60 years ago.
When you dig in in an observable position, hide the spoil.
Look at the mounds of spoil near each entrance. Bet the analysis have no trouble calculating the size of each excavation and draw up plans accordingly.
When you dig in in an observable position, hide the spoil.
Look at the mounds of spoil near each entrance. Bet the analysis have no trouble calculating the size of each excavation and draw up plans accordingly.
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Quote from Trim Stab
Happy to oblige:
However, Trim I would bow to your obviously superior knowledge and I have no doubt that being a professional and skilled translator of Persian you can win us all over with your scintillating argument convincing us that the words of Army Dinner Jacket merely reflected that he is a man of peace and serenity who only wants to invite the Israelis to dinner.
By the way all that stuff is from Wickipedia and took me about 2 nano seconds to find.
Please make a link to your source on that?
Ahmadinejad was quoted:
Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world.[77]
According the Official Iranian Presidential website, Ahmadinejad's actual phrase was اسرائیل بايد از صفحه*ی روزگار محو شود[78]
[edit]
Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world.[77]
According the Official Iranian Presidential website, Ahmadinejad's actual phrase was اسرائیل بايد از صفحه*ی روزگار محو شود[78]
[edit]
This translation's use in the media has been criticized.[80] Arash Norouzi, artist and co-founder of The Mossadegh Project, says the statement "wiped off the map" did not exist in the original speech and that Ahmadinejad directed his comment toward the "regime occupying Jerusalem"
[T]ranslators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his website, refer to wiping Israel away. Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran’s most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say “wipe off” or “wipe away” is more accurate than "vanish" because the Persian verb is active and transitive.
By the way all that stuff is from Wickipedia and took me about 2 nano seconds to find.
Last edited by sisemen; 10th Apr 2013 at 07:32.
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Trim Stab,
Another example may be seen HERE on the BBC web site. You can not exactly accuse the BBC of being right wing.
Mr Ahmadinejad was quoted by Irna, the official Iranian news agency, as saying: "The hegemony of the occupier regime [Israel] had collapsed, and the Lebanese nation pushed the button to begin counting the days until the destruction of the Zionist regime."
"God willing, in the near future we will witness the destruction of the corrupt occupier regime," Mr Ahmadinejad said.
Another example may be seen HERE on the BBC web site. You can not exactly accuse the BBC of being right wing.
Mr Ahmadinejad was quoted by Irna, the official Iranian news agency, as saying: "The hegemony of the occupier regime [Israel] had collapsed, and the Lebanese nation pushed the button to begin counting the days until the destruction of the Zionist regime."
"God willing, in the near future we will witness the destruction of the corrupt occupier regime," Mr Ahmadinejad said.
All that made me wonder where Global Research is coming from and how ballanced and neutral they are. Not very, it seems. Run by Canadian economist Michel Chossudovsky.
Possibly leaning towards anti-American, anti-Israel, so the alternative translation is not that much of a surprise.
committed to curbing the tide of globalisation and disarming the new world order
A 2005 article in The Jewish Tribune has criticized GlobalResearch.ca as "rife with anti-Jewish conspiracy theory and Holocaust denial."
CRG maintains the website GlobalResearch.ca which is critical of United States foreign policy and NATO, as well as theories concerning the September 11 attacks in 2001 and the war on terror, media disinformation, poverty and social inequality, the global economic crisis, and politics and religion.
Chossudovsky argues that from a military standpoint, the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) is an operational weapon of mass destruction with the potential to be used against "rogue states", with the power to alter the weather, disrupt regional electrical power systems, and modify the Earth's magnetic field, as well as potentially trigger earthquakes and affect people's health.
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Probably no coincidence that TT gives his location as "the heart of darkness". According to my map that's somewhere between Afghanistan and the UAE 
Sisemen, excuse me but where in any of those statements does he claim that he wants to nuke Israel? For sure, he wants to change the Israeli regime (along with many other people around the world) but he has never said he intends to do that with a nuke. He has gone on record many times saying that he opposes a two state solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict (which ironically is in agreement with US and Israel). But whereas Israel and US want to keep Palestinians in a stateless ghetto with no UN seat, no freedom to travel, no possibility to raise their own taxes etc, Iran wants a "single-state" solution whereby all inhabitants of Israel and Palestine territory are united in a one-state democracy. This is all he has ever proposed.
You clearly are somebody who prefers to believe in propaganda - just the sort of citizen Blair and Bush like. I prefer to read around lots of different sources, and it is not too difficult to find out what he really said, even if you don't speak Persian yourself. For example, try reading this analysis by the Washington Post, where they consulted a fluent Persian academic:
Did Ahmadinejad really say Israel should be ‘wiped off the map’? - The Washington Post
Here is another academic discussion of what he said:
Debating Every Last Word of Ahmadinejad's 'Wipe Israel Off the Map' - Uri Friedman - The Atlantic Wire
Finally, here is the Israeli Deputy PM admitting that Ahmadinijad did not make the claim:
You clearly are somebody who prefers to believe in propaganda - just the sort of citizen Blair and Bush like. I prefer to read around lots of different sources, and it is not too difficult to find out what he really said, even if you don't speak Persian yourself. For example, try reading this analysis by the Washington Post, where they consulted a fluent Persian academic:
Did Ahmadinejad really say Israel should be ‘wiped off the map’? - The Washington Post
Here is another academic discussion of what he said:
Debating Every Last Word of Ahmadinejad's 'Wipe Israel Off the Map' - Uri Friedman - The Atlantic Wire
Finally, here is the Israeli Deputy PM admitting that Ahmadinijad did not make the claim:
Last edited by Trim Stab; 10th Apr 2013 at 15:18.
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So he didn't say it but hey never mind that - the likes of siseman et al won't bother letting truth influence the debate. Have we not seen this before WMD, 14 minute readiness and a dossier !
God preserve us from these idiots.
God preserve us from these idiots.
Last edited by TomJoad; 10th Apr 2013 at 17:49.
Well, well, well. I've suddenly been persuaded that I'm a Dinner Jacket is a totally reasonable democrat, not a basket case. I must have been indoctrinated by BBC propaganda all these years. That'll learn me.
So, I now realize that he wants peace for the Israelis and a democratic, single state, presumably all the regions now called Israel, with a democratically elected parliament in Jerusalem and he'll tell Hamas to calm down.
So he must also know that the Palestinians will withdraw from their position of demanding the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a Palestinian state, either "in place of both Israel and the Palestinian territories, or solely in the Palestinian territories."
And he must know that both the Palestinians and the Israelis will believe that and adopt his moderate and totally reasonable views.
Good. Time to lift the sanctions then and re-establish the embassies. Iran is right back on my holiday list.
So, I now realize that he wants peace for the Israelis and a democratic, single state, presumably all the regions now called Israel, with a democratically elected parliament in Jerusalem and he'll tell Hamas to calm down.
So he must also know that the Palestinians will withdraw from their position of demanding the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a Palestinian state, either "in place of both Israel and the Palestinian territories, or solely in the Palestinian territories."
And he must know that both the Palestinians and the Israelis will believe that and adopt his moderate and totally reasonable views.
Good. Time to lift the sanctions then and re-establish the embassies. Iran is right back on my holiday list.
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 10th Apr 2013 at 17:54.
Courtney, I suspect you'll visit Iran the week after you ski in Hades. 
Probably more likely quite a few of Courtney's era will happily visit when a flyable phantom and a B57 come up on ebay 
Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 10th Apr 2013 at 18:50.