A330 tankers
the baskets are ringed with lights so power of some sort is available
Originally Posted by newt
Once again we have a very expensive aircraft that cannot complete it's primary role on entry into service!!
Nothing changes then
Bring me the whisky bottle! Oh no it's still January and I promised not to drink all month!!
Nothing changes then
Bring me the whisky bottle! Oh no it's still January and I promised not to drink all month!!
Originally Posted by The Times
.....Voyager remains on schedule to meet its air-to-air refuelling in-service-date of May 2014.....
Beta lights are so last century! The latest drogues use self-powered illumination.
BBadanov, I'm fully aware that AiM has lost 2 booms during manufacturer's A330MRTT testing - hardly a secret as both cases were soon reported in the media.
If you think that RAAF OT&E has 'gone well', I'd hate to know what 'not gone well' would amount to under your definition.....
But yes, perhaps unsurprisingly the KC-30A and Voyager have indeed proved that a grey-painted A330 works very well in the Air Transport role...even without EROPS clearance.
BBadanov, I'm fully aware that AiM has lost 2 booms during manufacturer's A330MRTT testing - hardly a secret as both cases were soon reported in the media.
If you think that RAAF OT&E has 'gone well', I'd hate to know what 'not gone well' would amount to under your definition.....
But yes, perhaps unsurprisingly the KC-30A and Voyager have indeed proved that a grey-painted A330 works very well in the Air Transport role...even without EROPS clearance.
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The stability of the drogue depends on several factors. The length of the hose, the size of the drogue canopy, the speed of the tanker, the setting of the fitting of the pod to the wing, the amount of fuel in the hose, to name but a few. I still wonder if the right people are trying to fix it.
Last edited by Art Field; 7th Jan 2013 at 09:30.
I think you will find that the lights in question are Beta Lights
More concerning is the length of time to procure these aircraft - it's only a modified A330 after all - does anyone have an idea on which year it was first mooted? about 1995-98ish?- granted there are technical issues to be overcome. How many former senior officers (esp ex Air Cmnd and BZN) have taken a significant salary to attempt to provide/advise on this hugely expensive PFI gravytrain? I do hope a good investigative journalist starts to ask the right questions and looks at the timescale and waste this thing has already taken to try and provide a basic capability.
sangiovese, once the finance people had finally agreed the terms of this PFI programme, AirTanker worked as quickly as possible to deliver the service.
However, it is hardly their fault if the aircraft failed to provide an AAR capability sooner. That is an Airbus Military / Cobham issue and one which is surely being progressed with some urgency.
Incidentally, I would certainly hope that there are some experienced ex-senior RAF officers working in the programme, rather than purely commercial and technical people. It's very important to the success of the RAF's future AAR capability that someone with the right background can smell potential BS!
Back to the drogue issue - when you have a long, relatively flexible wing, a long hose and a light drogue, it is highly likely that tuning out divergent oscillations will be very difficult over the entire AAR envelope as specified by the end-user. When tension response is controlled electrically rather than by 'technik durch four springs' as in the Mk32 pod, tweaking the control software is far from simple. So even when any drogue leaks, spinning and stability issues have been resolved, there is still the possibility of hose yo-yo or 'pulsing' behaviour to consider. The hose and drogue might be perfectly acceptable at the heart of the AAR envelope, but would that meet the demands of a customer who has specified a more demanding AAR envelope? Somehow I doubt it...... Because there'd be no guarantee that any urgency would be attached to extending clearance to the entire envelope.
However, it is hardly their fault if the aircraft failed to provide an AAR capability sooner. That is an Airbus Military / Cobham issue and one which is surely being progressed with some urgency.
Incidentally, I would certainly hope that there are some experienced ex-senior RAF officers working in the programme, rather than purely commercial and technical people. It's very important to the success of the RAF's future AAR capability that someone with the right background can smell potential BS!
Back to the drogue issue - when you have a long, relatively flexible wing, a long hose and a light drogue, it is highly likely that tuning out divergent oscillations will be very difficult over the entire AAR envelope as specified by the end-user. When tension response is controlled electrically rather than by 'technik durch four springs' as in the Mk32 pod, tweaking the control software is far from simple. So even when any drogue leaks, spinning and stability issues have been resolved, there is still the possibility of hose yo-yo or 'pulsing' behaviour to consider. The hose and drogue might be perfectly acceptable at the heart of the AAR envelope, but would that meet the demands of a customer who has specified a more demanding AAR envelope? Somehow I doubt it...... Because there'd be no guarantee that any urgency would be attached to extending clearance to the entire envelope.
Last edited by BEagle; 7th Jan 2013 at 13:39.
Well, according to the Airbus Military Press Office at least, the Indians think it's ok. This pinged into the inbox today
Airbus Military A330 MRTT selected by Indian Government
Airbus Military is pleased to confirm that it has been selected by the Government of India as the preferred bidder to supply its A330 MRTT Multi Role Tanker Transport to the Indian Air Force (IAF).
The decision follows a lengthy and thorough selection process including the completion of extensive flight demonstrations in India by the A330 MRTT during which the aircraft refuelled multiple types of IAF fighters and operated from the high-altitude IAF base at Leh.
Detailed negotiations will now begin which it is expected will lead to the award of a final production contract for an envisaged six aircraft in 2013.
Airbus Military CEO Domingo Ureña Raso said: “We are grateful for the confidence shown in our company by the Government of India and the Indian Air Force, and we appreciate the detailed and fair appraisal of the competing products which they have conducted. This has been a long and tough competition and we are honoured to have been selected.
“We are fully committed to the next stage of the negotiations, and ultimately to providing the IAF with what is unquestionably the most advanced tanker/transport aircraft flying and certified today.”
India ́s selection of the A330 MRTT makes it the fifth nation to commit to the type following Australia, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and the United Kingdom which have ordered a total of 28 aircraft.
airsound
Airbus Military A330 MRTT selected by Indian Government
Airbus Military is pleased to confirm that it has been selected by the Government of India as the preferred bidder to supply its A330 MRTT Multi Role Tanker Transport to the Indian Air Force (IAF).
The decision follows a lengthy and thorough selection process including the completion of extensive flight demonstrations in India by the A330 MRTT during which the aircraft refuelled multiple types of IAF fighters and operated from the high-altitude IAF base at Leh.
Detailed negotiations will now begin which it is expected will lead to the award of a final production contract for an envisaged six aircraft in 2013.
Airbus Military CEO Domingo Ureña Raso said: “We are grateful for the confidence shown in our company by the Government of India and the Indian Air Force, and we appreciate the detailed and fair appraisal of the competing products which they have conducted. This has been a long and tough competition and we are honoured to have been selected.
“We are fully committed to the next stage of the negotiations, and ultimately to providing the IAF with what is unquestionably the most advanced tanker/transport aircraft flying and certified today.”
India ́s selection of the A330 MRTT makes it the fifth nation to commit to the type following Australia, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and the United Kingdom which have ordered a total of 28 aircraft.
airsound
Last edited by airsound; 7th Jan 2013 at 16:07. Reason: layout
