Soldiers given extra Christmas leave as a 'thank you'
So should we and the Navy consider reporting our respective Services to the Equal Opportunities Commission, or is it simply that we haven't worked hard enough this year?
single-service leadership. Or lack thereof.
Last edited by Easy Street; 3rd Dec 2012 at 21:24.
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Easy Street - there appears to be a difference in ethos here. The Army appear to have put some thought into this, and are finding ways to make it happen.
If the RAF at large truly has your view, then it would appear that they are finding ways to make it NOT happen. The edict from LAND was signed in early October. I would suggest that is plenty of time to make arrangements so that issues such as currency can be put to bed.
As for "essential training", I think you will find that the Army does plenty of that, even when not deployed on exercise. Just like the RAF. And the RN, no doubt.
I was Army, but have served on RAF stations. There is a difference in viewpoints, and certainly the Army makes a pig's ear of some things the RAF do well. The reverse is also true however.
If the RAF at large truly has your view, then it would appear that they are finding ways to make it NOT happen. The edict from LAND was signed in early October. I would suggest that is plenty of time to make arrangements so that issues such as currency can be put to bed.
As for "essential training", I think you will find that the Army does plenty of that, even when not deployed on exercise. Just like the RAF. And the RN, no doubt.
I was Army, but have served on RAF stations. There is a difference in viewpoints, and certainly the Army makes a pig's ear of some things the RAF do well. The reverse is also true however.
Last edited by Roadster280; 3rd Dec 2012 at 21:50.
Originally Posted by Easy Street
...Much of the RAF when "in barracks" in the UK is conducting essential training; it's not like Army and RN units who have specific and time-limited work-up exercises...
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Let's not have a pi$$ing contest over who does how much away.
More to this point, the need to reduce costs has been around since the last SDSR (and since the end the 1930's expansion plan), the traditional Christmas celebration has been around for the last 2 Millennia or so and the UK metman would generally support the contention that the weather in Dec, Jan and Feb is poor to say the least. Making an early announcement would help ensure sensible use of the Individual Leave Allowance and negate the need to give 'free' time off. My guess is 4 days x 108000 men x £90 ave pay = £3.9m. Not sure how that stacks up against savings elsewhere.
More to this point, the need to reduce costs has been around since the last SDSR (and since the end the 1930's expansion plan), the traditional Christmas celebration has been around for the last 2 Millennia or so and the UK metman would generally support the contention that the weather in Dec, Jan and Feb is poor to say the least. Making an early announcement would help ensure sensible use of the Individual Leave Allowance and negate the need to give 'free' time off. My guess is 4 days x 108000 men x £90 ave pay = £3.9m. Not sure how that stacks up against savings elsewhere.
I understand the currency impacts and, yes, unfortunately things are that taut. However I've not found anyone else who has had 4 days leave added. The stand-down days to cover 20 Dec to 3 Jan (I think that was the Jan date) but no extra to cover from 14 Dec.
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This isn't a case of extra leave, this is allowing us to take extra time off...
I think this will allow people to dip under the 15 day carry over as we've not been able to take leave this year due to Olympics etc...
I think this will allow people to dip under the 15 day carry over as we've not been able to take leave this year due to Olympics etc...
www, downsizer, et al: This taken from orders where I work:
13 days at the cost of 2 days ILA or 17 days leave for 4 days ILA if you extend leave until Mon 07 Jan and why wouldn't you - if you can? All information readily available on the intranet. 
Not sure about your units, but if they haven't added the 4 additional days yet, maybe you should be asking PSF why. So I think we might be violently agreeing. There has been no announcement of anything beyond the COP 20 Dec - RTW 03 Jan.
1. This note outlines the Air Force Board's direction with regard to leave and stand-down arrnagements for Christmas and new year 2013. This has been another challenging year... blah, blah. In recognition of the demands... blah, extra stand-down days have been agreed for the Christmas 2012 and New Year 2013 period, which will run from cease work Thu 20 Dec 12 until start work Thu 03 Jan 13. A detailed breakdown of the leave amounts is:
2 x ILA
2 x weekend
4 x stand-down
3 x PH
Total 13 days
2 x ILA
2 x weekend
4 x stand-down
3 x PH
Total 13 days
Not sure about your units, but if they haven't added the 4 additional days yet, maybe you should be asking PSF why. So I think we might be violently agreeing. There has been no announcement of anything beyond the COP 20 Dec - RTW 03 Jan.
Last edited by Roland Pulfrew; 4th Dec 2012 at 10:22.
So my questions now are:
Is the 4 days additional leave given to everyone in the RAF the same as the 4 days standown for the Xmas period that we are expected to use or is it additional?
I.E. If I extend my leave until 7 Jan and use 4 days ILA to do so. Will that be the bonus 4 days or will it be part of my original allowance?
If the standown is in addition, how do I enter that on JPA?
Is the 4 days additional leave given to everyone in the RAF the same as the 4 days standown for the Xmas period that we are expected to use or is it additional?
I.E. If I extend my leave until 7 Jan and use 4 days ILA to do so. Will that be the bonus 4 days or will it be part of my original allowance?
If the standown is in addition, how do I enter that on JPA?
If you extend, the days come off your original ILA balance. The 4 extra days cover the middle of the grant.
The 4 days of AA should have been added by your admin already.
The 4 days of AA should have been added by your admin already.
Last edited by downsizer; 4th Dec 2012 at 14:37.
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The various HQs at Air Cmd are all offering their staff variations on a theme (you wouldnt expect them to agree to one plot would you?). Staff are being 'encouraged' to use their ALA to extend the official grant period, so either knock off cop 14 Dec return 3 Jan 13 or knock off COP 20 Dec return 7 Jan 13. As I said, any extra comes out of your annual leave allowance. As there is no coherence there ain't much scope to save on utilities!
Last edited by Jumping_Jack; 4th Dec 2012 at 15:07.
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Easy Street makes a valid point. Back when we had the peace dividend and an extra week off it actually put the training system back a fortnight. In training with leave over 9 days there is a very significant knowledge fade(I don't say skills) amongst trainees. We had to lay on additional sim sorties to recover lost ground and additional flights for some.
I imagine there would be a knock on effect with OCU training schedules too. Sqns certainly can flex more easily.
I imagine there would be a knock on effect with OCU training schedules too. Sqns certainly can flex more easily.
But if you work for JFC, you get 'follow the intent of the RN/RM' which is 2 extra days. But that's only an intent and if your senior man is a civil servant, then you get one extra day!
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Roland Pulfrew
Any idea as to which day is what ?
Some of us have to provide a 24/7 cover and need to know which date is allocated as ILA, WE (we can guess), PH or SBY in order to submit leave passes.
We (RAF) have been encouraged to take leave from 14 Dec by Harry Staish, although flying continues!?!?!?!??????
Any idea as to which day is what ?
Some of us have to provide a 24/7 cover and need to know which date is allocated as ILA, WE (we can guess), PH or SBY in order to submit leave passes.
We (RAF) have been encouraged to take leave from 14 Dec by Harry Staish, although flying continues!?!?!?!??????
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MG, and the point of it only over Christmas is that the units an shut right down - economy.
On my last we used to get an AOCs stand-down. One year they tried to keep the unit open and allow the individual to take a stand-down. I won the point that that was no stand-down as the individual's work load was then shifted to the remaining staff.
It would work for some but not for shift workers.
On my last we used to get an AOCs stand-down. One year they tried to keep the unit open and allow the individual to take a stand-down. I won the point that that was no stand-down as the individual's work load was then shifted to the remaining staff.
It would work for some but not for shift workers.