'Withdraw Now' - Lord Ashdown
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'Withdraw Now' - Lord Ashdown
Lord Ashdown say there is no more to be done
It's a difficult thing to do, to cut and run, but he may have a point...
It's a difficult thing to do, to cut and run, but he may have a point...
Genuine question:
Do those who actually know about Afghanistan feel that it will indeed be back in the stone age within months of us leaving?
I pose it because that's the view of loads of observers who like me, know cock all about it really. Is the Afghan army likely to fold immediately after the Western withdrawal?
CG
Do those who actually know about Afghanistan feel that it will indeed be back in the stone age within months of us leaving?
I pose it because that's the view of loads of observers who like me, know cock all about it really. Is the Afghan army likely to fold immediately after the Western withdrawal?
CG
Last edited by charliegolf; 16th Nov 2012 at 10:28.
Let's start planning for the next one then: 
(from wiki)
(from wiki)
- Conquest of Afghanistan by Alexander the Great (330 BCE–327 BCE)
- Islamic conquest of Afghanistan (637–709)
- Conquest of Afghanistan by the Mongol Empire (13th century), see Mongol invasion of Central Asia
- A number of wars involving the Mughal Empire and Durrani Empires.
- Anglo-Afghan Wars (First British involvement with Afghanistan):
- First Anglo-Afghan War (1839–1842)
- Second Anglo-Afghan War (1878–1881)
- Panjdeh Incident (1885)
- Third Anglo-Afghan War (1919)
- Reforms of Amanullah Khan and civil war, 1929 civil war when Habibullah Ghazi briefly overthrew the government and became emir
- War in Afghanistan (1978–present):
- Soviet war in Afghanistan (1979–1989) – Soviet involvement
- Afghan Civil War (1989–1992) – Government collapse
- Afghan Civil War (1992–1996) – Civil war
- Afghan Civil War (1996–2001) – Taliban period
- War in Afghanistan (2001–present) – ISAF/NATO involvement
- War in Afghanistan (xxxx - xxxx) - ?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Back to the OP:
The only way to withdraw now is to abandon every bit if kit we can't remove in the next month, ideally with a bit of semtex.
Then to withdraw into a secure base secured by the 101st or some such. Withdraw everyone inside that perimeter. Collapse the perimeter and do a final evac with a massive helo lift covered by air to a remote FARP and then GTHOODodge.
As for CG's question, does anyone know?
The only way to withdraw now is to abandon every bit if kit we can't remove in the next month, ideally with a bit of semtex.
Then to withdraw into a secure base secured by the 101st or some such. Withdraw everyone inside that perimeter. Collapse the perimeter and do a final evac with a massive helo lift covered by air to a remote FARP and then GTHOODodge.
As for CG's question, does anyone know?
'Withdraw Now' - Lord Ashdown
Perhaps we should indeed pay attention since, if I recall correctly, Paddy Pantsdown had some experience of withdrawing ...
Jack
Jack
Tabs please !
'Withdraw Now' - Lord Ashdown
Didn't the Pope say something similar ?
Didn't the Pope say something similar ?
Der ganze Balkan ist nicht die gesunden Knochen eines einzigen pommerschen Grenadiers wert.
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October 7, 2001 was the date the Allied bombing started over Afghanistan as a direct result of the 9/11 WTC attack.
The decision to commence that operation has led the West to where it is today. And it will be with Taliban that any political settlement will have to be made.
After 10 or so years in opposition, Taliban will gradually take over and put Afghanistan back to where it was post Russian occupation and civil wars.
OK I know it's idle speculation but what if Bush had held back and put more effort into different options?
Lastly, will China offer Taliban loans for rebuilding Afghanistan?
GMFU?
SGC
The decision to commence that operation has led the West to where it is today. And it will be with Taliban that any political settlement will have to be made.
After 10 or so years in opposition, Taliban will gradually take over and put Afghanistan back to where it was post Russian occupation and civil wars.
OK I know it's idle speculation but what if Bush had held back and put more effort into different options?
Lastly, will China offer Taliban loans for rebuilding Afghanistan?
GMFU?
SGC
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Why are we at war with the Taliban? They may have hosted al q, but they never attacked a western nation themselves. Why couldn't we have stuck with air bombing of camps with limited sf support?
Or did the army need another war to prevent cuts to their force?
Or did the army need another war to prevent cuts to their force?
Time to Go..............
Many years ago whilst working at the Bath and West Show as a uniformed strand of the thin blue line, I was approached by the then Paddy Ashdown in a blatant display of 'MP talks to Police Officer' PR event. At the time I thought 'What an arse' - only one reason for that approach.
Fast forward to to 2012 and he is absolutely spot on, no doubt about it. If anybody believes we will make a difference - dream on. The Afghans will not tolerate foreign intervention in any way. Full stop.
The loss of ISAF life is a disgrace.
Fast forward to to 2012 and he is absolutely spot on, no doubt about it. If anybody believes we will make a difference - dream on. The Afghans will not tolerate foreign intervention in any way. Full stop.
The loss of ISAF life is a disgrace.
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I reproduce an item I posted on another military forum a couple of weeks ago under a different pseudonym. As you will see I am with PA on this one. LF.
I watched an episode of this Afghanistan conflict documentary called 'The Lost Platoon' on TV a couple of days ago. I stumbled across it rather than having set out to watch it. I can't say I am pleased that I did, as I found it very uncomfortable viewing. It released a whole range of emotions from anger through pity, frustration, sympathy, shock, admiration and bewilderment, all following hard upon one another and then recycled. What a mess.
I won't repeat the story - I think it is still available on iplayer - but there is a familiar mix of very young men, most in combat for the first time, and in a very vulnerable situation. Bravado, inexperience and in some a clear desire to earn their spurs were all there; some not the brightest or dealt a winning start in life, and yet called on to do a man's job when most (certainly I) would curl up in the foetal position and just freeze. That most came though physically is surprising; that many bear emotional scars that are not healing so well is not surprising.
I have had ever-growing doubts about the presence of our troops in Afghanistan and this programme helped crystallise my view that we really should get our boys and girls out. True, this event was from a few years back and things have apparently eased in the meantime, but I just cannot see how this kind of guerilla warfare is sustainable in the longer term. The fact that we've already been there a long time makes it all the more incomprehensible. I hope that because I was watching a single event and therefore missing the overall context that it is not all as pointless as it appeared - but I fear not.
Not sure I can bring myself to watch another episode, but then I immediately feel that's a morally cowardly reaction, blanking out the tough job our troops have to do just because I don't have the stomach to even watch from a safe place. I suppose that if you are in the Army then doing some awful things comes with the territory. But I hope our leaders see these sorts of programmes too so that they are aware of what we ask of our young fighters.
I watched an episode of this Afghanistan conflict documentary called 'The Lost Platoon' on TV a couple of days ago. I stumbled across it rather than having set out to watch it. I can't say I am pleased that I did, as I found it very uncomfortable viewing. It released a whole range of emotions from anger through pity, frustration, sympathy, shock, admiration and bewilderment, all following hard upon one another and then recycled. What a mess.
I won't repeat the story - I think it is still available on iplayer - but there is a familiar mix of very young men, most in combat for the first time, and in a very vulnerable situation. Bravado, inexperience and in some a clear desire to earn their spurs were all there; some not the brightest or dealt a winning start in life, and yet called on to do a man's job when most (certainly I) would curl up in the foetal position and just freeze. That most came though physically is surprising; that many bear emotional scars that are not healing so well is not surprising.
I have had ever-growing doubts about the presence of our troops in Afghanistan and this programme helped crystallise my view that we really should get our boys and girls out. True, this event was from a few years back and things have apparently eased in the meantime, but I just cannot see how this kind of guerilla warfare is sustainable in the longer term. The fact that we've already been there a long time makes it all the more incomprehensible. I hope that because I was watching a single event and therefore missing the overall context that it is not all as pointless as it appeared - but I fear not.
Not sure I can bring myself to watch another episode, but then I immediately feel that's a morally cowardly reaction, blanking out the tough job our troops have to do just because I don't have the stomach to even watch from a safe place. I suppose that if you are in the Army then doing some awful things comes with the territory. But I hope our leaders see these sorts of programmes too so that they are aware of what we ask of our young fighters.
I remember in the midst of all the diplomatic ballyhoo that preceded the Falklands War, Paddy was interviewed by an Argentinian TV crew in a New York street. He didn't say much other than, "Be in no doubt, if it comes to it we will fight you, make no mistake". He was right then, he's probably right now.
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Well I totally agree with Paddy.
Back in 2001 (when I was still serving) I openly voiced my opinions to several Senior Officers that going into Afgan was a mistake and it would end in tears (I happened to know my history of the country). I was also rather cynical while serving on the Harrier IPT when I was told that the jets would only be in the country for 9 months (that is what was stated at the time). I was ignored and in fact accused of just being a negative, old fashioned Chief Tech who did not understand the changing world and that history would not be repeated this time.
Now I am not suggesting that Senior Officers should listen to a grumpy old Chief Tech, but I am suggesting that the chain of command does not have the ability or courage to question those above them and ultimately political decisions made by the top rulers.
Reading some of the comments on this thread and comments made on several other threads , I just wonder how many people voiced their opinions then and how many (still serving) have the courage to voice their opinions to Senior Officers now.
It just annoys me how many did not in the beginning, but they do now in the secrecy of a made up name, on a public website.
I also remember the statements:
We will not give into terrorists
We will not negotiate with terrorists
We will not stop until the job is finished
And those that have died will not have died in vain.
So what happened there??
What a disastrous 11/12 years!!
Apologies if some of my comments are difficult to understand or my written English is poor, but too many beers following yet another Wales loss in rugby (against Samoa) is to blame. P.S Well deserved Samoa.
Back in 2001 (when I was still serving) I openly voiced my opinions to several Senior Officers that going into Afgan was a mistake and it would end in tears (I happened to know my history of the country). I was also rather cynical while serving on the Harrier IPT when I was told that the jets would only be in the country for 9 months (that is what was stated at the time). I was ignored and in fact accused of just being a negative, old fashioned Chief Tech who did not understand the changing world and that history would not be repeated this time.
Now I am not suggesting that Senior Officers should listen to a grumpy old Chief Tech, but I am suggesting that the chain of command does not have the ability or courage to question those above them and ultimately political decisions made by the top rulers.
Reading some of the comments on this thread and comments made on several other threads , I just wonder how many people voiced their opinions then and how many (still serving) have the courage to voice their opinions to Senior Officers now.
It just annoys me how many did not in the beginning, but they do now in the secrecy of a made up name, on a public website.
I also remember the statements:
We will not give into terrorists
We will not negotiate with terrorists
We will not stop until the job is finished
And those that have died will not have died in vain.
So what happened there??
What a disastrous 11/12 years!!
Apologies if some of my comments are difficult to understand or my written English is poor, but too many beers following yet another Wales loss in rugby (against Samoa) is to blame. P.S Well deserved Samoa.