Astute - Slow, leaky, rusty
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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Astute - Slow, leaky, rusty
Apologies, not aviation related (except they are supposed to defend the new aircraft carriers), but of interest.
Grauniad: Slow, leaky, rusty: Britain's £10bn submarine beset by design flaws
Exclusive: Royal Navy's HMS Astute 'has a V8 engine with a Morris Minor gearbox'
Britain's nuclear hunter-killer submarines were doomed from the start
The flawed thinking and design behind the fleet at the heart of Britain's navy is now coming to the fore
Grauniad: Slow, leaky, rusty: Britain's £10bn submarine beset by design flaws
Exclusive: Royal Navy's HMS Astute 'has a V8 engine with a Morris Minor gearbox'
Britain's nuclear hunter-killer submarines were doomed from the start
The flawed thinking and design behind the fleet at the heart of Britain's navy is now coming to the fore
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The nuclear engineering expert John Large, who led the team evaluating the risks from the reactors and weapons on board the Russian submarine, Kursk, said: "I expect there will now be some serious soul-searching at the MoD, what went wrong and who is to blame, but to conceal the detail of the failures is wholly inappropriate because it protects the incompetent and, quite possibly, permits an unacceptable element of the nuclear safety risk to persist.
Last edited by VinRouge; 16th Nov 2012 at 07:55.
Exclusive: Royal Navy's HMS Astute 'has a V8 engine with a Morris Minor gearbox'
...BAE, which is responsible for building the boat...
I can understand a submarine built by BWoS being capable of submerging with little difficulty; surfacing, however, would likely be more problematic.
Last edited by BEagle; 16th Nov 2012 at 08:17.
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Nice to know the gearbox is ok. Not sure about that V8 engine, is it the one Rover cribbed from an ancient Buick?
Now, what about those lovely new carriers, I wonder who's building them....
Now, what about those lovely new carriers, I wonder who's building them....
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When I saw the title I thought it was a discussion on Buster, sorry to intrude.
Nice to see more screeching hypocrisy from Jim Murphy, who seems to continue to suffer astonishing memory loss from his party's awfully self-interested mismanagement of Defence.......
Hey - who needs these fundamentally flawed submarines when we have the brand new super duper Nimrod MRA4's coming into service!!
Oh, err, actually we don't do we. Forgot for a minute that they had all been sawn up just to make absolutely sure the govt couldn't change their minds.....
Lots of common denominators between Astute and Nimrod. Starting with BAE Systems and finishing with doing stuff on the cheap. Wonder if the lead for the reactor cover came off the roof of Preston Cathedral?
Oh, err, actually we don't do we. Forgot for a minute that they had all been sawn up just to make absolutely sure the govt couldn't change their minds.....
Lots of common denominators between Astute and Nimrod. Starting with BAE Systems and finishing with doing stuff on the cheap. Wonder if the lead for the reactor cover came off the roof of Preston Cathedral?
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Known to the MPA community as targets.
Oh, I forgot, the RAF doesn't have an anti-shipping strike community either
Last edited by BEagle; 16th Nov 2012 at 09:31.
Originally Posted by Party Animal
Lots of common denominators between Astute and Nimrod.
The alleged turbine/reactor mismatch sounds like typical MOD "spoiling the ship for a ha'penny's worth of tar", but as for other complaints - vessels do experience floods, ferrous metals exposed to seawater corrode, and so on.
To qoute this guy from ARRSE:
Astute was the first submarine built by Barrow for quite a number of years and the contract to build was repeatedly pushed back by the government of the day (I believe both parties share the blame). As a result BAE was struggling to keep the yard open and experienced workers in employment for some years. Eventually the costs got too high and they had to lay people off. Result - when they came to build Astute they'd forgotten how to, exactly what they told the government would happen.
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 16th Nov 2012 at 10:00.
If the report is true there are indeed many similarities with Nimrod, Chinook and others. If you asked me how to avoid most of them on aircraft, I'd say implement the regs governing Design Reviews.
That is, the regs deemed optional by DGAS2 (Nimrod MRA4, Chinook Mk3) and CDP (Astute and everything else) in the mid-90s. Savings at the expense of safety.
That is, the regs deemed optional by DGAS2 (Nimrod MRA4, Chinook Mk3) and CDP (Astute and everything else) in the mid-90s. Savings at the expense of safety.
Suspicion breeds confidence
To get to “full ahead” on a submarine, you have to employ a procedure which disables the safety protocols on the reactor and cooling system. For this reason alone, to my knowledge it has only ever been done once. The argument put forward in the article is complete non-sense by some third rate journo. The early SSNs were slower than 29kts.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
NE, without divulging anything, the article says high speed might be needed to get somewhere. To travel at even 20 kts is, presumably, akin to driving on a motorway in fog at 70+.
He also says the odd shape is dictated by the reactor. Looking at the pictures in the article it looks rather like area rule. Is that valid in a boat?
He also says the odd shape is dictated by the reactor. Looking at the pictures in the article it looks rather like area rule. Is that valid in a boat?
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Driving around at 20+ knots isn't too dangerous - your ability to listen out for other traffic is very poor but then how many submarines are there tanking about under the N Atlantic at one time - maybe a few US SSBN''s, a couple of French & Russian boats.... in an awful lot of blue.... and they will hear you coming a long way off and can get out of the way
the risk is when people are playing games at very low speeds tracking each other close too - easy to lose the big picture and hit the other guy (ask the RN & the French navy)
the risk is when people are playing games at very low speeds tracking each other close too - easy to lose the big picture and hit the other guy (ask the RN & the French navy)
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The way I understand the article, the reactor is bigger than required, as its the single most expensive research component on the boat. Much cheaper to reuse an earlier design than start from scratch. The turbines probably are smaller than the max coutput of the reactor and its this they are getting confused about. As for wrong bits, the fact it has been spotted and the audit revealed snags in manufacture demonstrates that things aren't perhaps as bad as made out?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
HH, it isn't only other submarines that might get out of your way, some might actually want to get in your way.
Then there are other things you might hit too.
Then there are other things you might hit too.
To get to “full ahead” on a submarine, you have to employ a procedure which disables the safety protocols on the reactor and cooling system. For this reason alone, to my knowledge it has only ever been done once. - Navaleye
Interesting - we seemed to manage going "full astern" without too much fuss ....
Known to the MPA community as targets. - PN
As indeed surface ships are known to the Submarine Service.
Jack
Interesting - we seemed to manage going "full astern" without too much fuss ....
Known to the MPA community as targets. - PN
As indeed surface ships are known to the Submarine Service.
Jack
UJ
Submarines join Ships as being know as targets in the MPA community 
Oh, I forgot, the RAF doesn't have an MPA community
As indeed surface ships are known to the Submarine Service
Oh, I forgot, the RAF doesn't have an MPA community