Iran fires on drone
Thread Starter
Iran fires on drone
Interesting little incident.
Frogfoot versus Predator.
Assuming the Predator wasn't armed - will be intriguing to see the public position the US develops on this as we learn more.
Frogfoot versus Predator.
Assuming the Predator wasn't armed - will be intriguing to see the public position the US develops on this as we learn more.
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Su25 doesn't sound like the weapon of choice for an air to air action does it? I gather it has some capability, or is this all the Iranians have?
Not sure of the relevance of armed/not armed. The "defender" cannot possibly know that nor can he be expected to go take a look. That's just journalistic emotive irrelevance. That it was shot at at all and whether it was inside or outside Iranian airspace is the point.
Not sure of the relevance of armed/not armed. The "defender" cannot possibly know that nor can he be expected to go take a look. That's just journalistic emotive irrelevance. That it was shot at at all and whether it was inside or outside Iranian airspace is the point.
Last edited by Agaricus bisporus; 8th Nov 2012 at 20:44.
Thread Starter
Thinking aloud - the Predator would be very vulnerable to any air to air attack.
Do they have any type of threat warning to register a missile lock?
And that gimbal mounted nose sensor thingy is built for looking down, not watching your six or anywhere else.
I wonder if they operate with an AWACS keeping an eye on things.
Sounds like it, given they are able to specify in this instance that it was a Frogfoot that attacked it.
The first thing an operator in Nevada might know about being engaged, particularly with guns - could be when their screen suddenly turns to static.
But then I guess that's the point... expendable platform for the dull, dirty and dangerous jobs.
Updated - they're now saying two Frogfoots had a crack with 30mm cannon - and that the Predator was unarmed.
Do they have any type of threat warning to register a missile lock?
And that gimbal mounted nose sensor thingy is built for looking down, not watching your six or anywhere else.
I wonder if they operate with an AWACS keeping an eye on things.
Sounds like it, given they are able to specify in this instance that it was a Frogfoot that attacked it.
The first thing an operator in Nevada might know about being engaged, particularly with guns - could be when their screen suddenly turns to static.
But then I guess that's the point... expendable platform for the dull, dirty and dangerous jobs.
Updated - they're now saying two Frogfoots had a crack with 30mm cannon - and that the Predator was unarmed.
Last edited by tartare; 8th Nov 2012 at 21:57.
Thinking aloud - the Predator would be very vulnerable to any air to air attack.
Correct.
Do they have any type of threat warning to register a missile lock?
The answer to that is likely classified.
And that gimbal mounted nose sensor thingy is built for looking down, not watching your six or anywhere else.
Yep
I wonder if they operate with an AWACS keeping an eye on things.
Sometimes. Depends.
Sounds like it, given they are able to specify in this instance that it was a Frogfoot that attacked it.
There may have been other ways to have identified who the air contacts were that ended up in vicinity of the Pred.
The first thing an operator in Nevada might know about being engaged, particularly with guns - could be when their screen suddenly turns to static.
Yep.
But then I guess that's the point... expendable platform for the dull, dirty and dangerous jobs.
While true ... were that an armed plane versus drone, likely the Iranian pilots would have had a bit more trouble setting up a guns shot.
p.
Correct.
Do they have any type of threat warning to register a missile lock?
The answer to that is likely classified.
And that gimbal mounted nose sensor thingy is built for looking down, not watching your six or anywhere else.
Yep
I wonder if they operate with an AWACS keeping an eye on things.
Sometimes. Depends.
Sounds like it, given they are able to specify in this instance that it was a Frogfoot that attacked it.
There may have been other ways to have identified who the air contacts were that ended up in vicinity of the Pred.
The first thing an operator in Nevada might know about being engaged, particularly with guns - could be when their screen suddenly turns to static.
Yep.
But then I guess that's the point... expendable platform for the dull, dirty and dangerous jobs.
While true ... were that an armed plane versus drone, likely the Iranian pilots would have had a bit more trouble setting up a guns shot.
p.
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I just wonder if anyone finds this picture from the BBC news coverage of the same incident vaguely amusing...
Who does the marshaller get to shout at when the 'pilot' does not follow instructions? And does the marshaller give a salute when it taxies past him?
pp
Who does the marshaller get to shout at when the 'pilot' does not follow instructions? And does the marshaller give a salute when it taxies past him?
pp
Thread Starter
Actually, a UCAV (emphasis on combat) probably would have been the answer.
One of
- with an AIM 9 or two.
Try and turn inside that Mr Frogfoot driver...
One of
Try and turn inside that Mr Frogfoot driver...
Phalconfixer
The pilot of the Predator A will be watching the marshalling signals through the camera on the nose and also via the turret. They also follow the taxy marks on the concrete through the same camera until they get signals from the marshaller. Finally, there is usually a marshaller on the radio speaking to the Launch Recovery Element ground control cabin that is probably only 200-300m away from the marshaller. Make sense now?
Lonewolf/tartare
The warning of the Frogfoot coming would be from a correlated Link 16/JTIDS picture probably tieing in the RADAR pictures from AWACS, ASACS, other Link 16 tactical aircraft (like F15 or F18) and a shed load of Coalition warships! Also the sensor ball is incredibly good at slewing to this Link 16 picture - I once watched a C17 flying at over 20 miles doing some stuff and I could make out its nationality markings quite clearly.
There was an attempt to trade shots between a MiG 25 and a Predator A over Iraq over 10 years ago - sadly the Stinger didn't guide to the MiG but guided to the contrail instead (if it had had a decent air-air missile the result would have been different).
Here's the video
The pilot of the Predator A will be watching the marshalling signals through the camera on the nose and also via the turret. They also follow the taxy marks on the concrete through the same camera until they get signals from the marshaller. Finally, there is usually a marshaller on the radio speaking to the Launch Recovery Element ground control cabin that is probably only 200-300m away from the marshaller. Make sense now?
Lonewolf/tartare
The warning of the Frogfoot coming would be from a correlated Link 16/JTIDS picture probably tieing in the RADAR pictures from AWACS, ASACS, other Link 16 tactical aircraft (like F15 or F18) and a shed load of Coalition warships! Also the sensor ball is incredibly good at slewing to this Link 16 picture - I once watched a C17 flying at over 20 miles doing some stuff and I could make out its nationality markings quite clearly.
There was an attempt to trade shots between a MiG 25 and a Predator A over Iraq over 10 years ago - sadly the Stinger didn't guide to the MiG but guided to the contrail instead (if it had had a decent air-air missile the result would have been different).
Here's the video
Even so, military officials and analysts say the $2.5 million Predator's first dogfight in December heralds a new role.
Maj. Mark Lilly of the Air Force 46th Expeditionary Reconnaissance Squadron.
Lilly said the Air Force was "baiting" the Iraqi air force by flying Predators over southern Iraq and fleeing when Iraqis scrambled their jets.
"Then they put Stinger missiles on a Predator. They took it up and the Predator didn't run away," he said.
The Predator and an Iraqi MiG 25 fired air-to-air missiles at each other. Lilly said the Stinger missed when its heat-seeker got diverted by the MiG's missile. The Iraqi missile downed the Predator.
"If it happens again, the Predator will come out on top," Lilly predicted.
Maj. Mark Lilly of the Air Force 46th Expeditionary Reconnaissance Squadron.
Lilly said the Air Force was "baiting" the Iraqi air force by flying Predators over southern Iraq and fleeing when Iraqis scrambled their jets.
"Then they put Stinger missiles on a Predator. They took it up and the Predator didn't run away," he said.
The Predator and an Iraqi MiG 25 fired air-to-air missiles at each other. Lilly said the Stinger missed when its heat-seeker got diverted by the MiG's missile. The Iraqi missile downed the Predator.
"If it happens again, the Predator will come out on top," Lilly predicted.
Now what would be interesting would be if the Predator A Pilot had done a 'Guns Jink' and also 'min ranged' the Frogfoot's missiles and held the Iranian Pilot off until he ran out of fuel and then RTB'd. Now that would be a story...
Otherwise, all I have read is just the normal Luddite 'drone bashing' drivel - move along please...nothing to see here.
iRaven
Last edited by iRaven; 8th Nov 2012 at 22:47.
