Sustained +9G....
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Sustained +9G....
I've just seen a pretty amazing demonstration of a new German anti-G suit on Richard Hammond's Miracles of Nature (BBC1). The subject coped with a sustained +9G - his party trick was to solve a Rubik's cube whilst at +9G!
+7 or +8 for a few seconds only was about all our Gnat/Hunter/Hawk kit could cope with - does the RAF have a similar piece of +9G kit for the Typhoon?
Even so, surely would you need constant practice to be able to cope with the full system capability? But with today's bean counters, is that feasible?
Courtney, mon brave, how often did you take the F-15C to its limit? Rather more often than we did in our creaking old Charlie fit F-4s, I would venture....
+7 or +8 for a few seconds only was about all our Gnat/Hunter/Hawk kit could cope with - does the RAF have a similar piece of +9G kit for the Typhoon?
Even so, surely would you need constant practice to be able to cope with the full system capability? But with today's bean counters, is that feasible?
Courtney, mon brave, how often did you take the F-15C to its limit? Rather more often than we did in our creaking old Charlie fit F-4s, I would venture....
I believe that the anti G kit on the Typhoon was specially develloped, with a specially designed anti G jacket and full length 'bladders' in the trousers, rather than the usual G trousers which have not got full coverage.
I read an article where a Typhoon pilot (I think it was this years display pilot Sqd Ldr McLoughlan) said that the kit was so good, they could sustain high G longer, and it felt that it was 'less' G than it really was.
I am sure a more qualified member of the forum will be able to give you more details.
I think the first job when you are heading off to the Typhoon OCU is to have a trip to North Luffenham to get fitted up for your special G kit (I think that was in a different article).
I read an article where a Typhoon pilot (I think it was this years display pilot Sqd Ldr McLoughlan) said that the kit was so good, they could sustain high G longer, and it felt that it was 'less' G than it really was.
I am sure a more qualified member of the forum will be able to give you more details.
I think the first job when you are heading off to the Typhoon OCU is to have a trip to North Luffenham to get fitted up for your special G kit (I think that was in a different article).
Last edited by Treble one; 5th Nov 2012 at 20:55.
Yes, been watching that too, BEags. Very interesting. We taught our F-15 students to operate the jet at 9g. Not for 5 seconds, for the whole fight, which admittedly would be descending and would eventually reach base height. Then you can't descend so it all slows down and the g reduces. But that was sustained 9g. And not just sitting up straight, but twisted round looking out the back in the case of Defensive BFM.
In fairness the Hamster missed out the bit about wearing an ordinary g-suit and a well-trained straining manoeuvre. 9g isn't the best place in the world to sit, just for fun. I did it the USAF's centrifuge and hated it. But it's quite do-able in the jet.
In fairness the Hamster missed out the bit about wearing an ordinary g-suit and a well-trained straining manoeuvre. 9g isn't the best place in the world to sit, just for fun. I did it the USAF's centrifuge and hated it. But it's quite do-able in the jet.
Thread Starter
But it's quite do-able in the jet.
+8G was also quite do-able in the Hunter T7 as I once proved....OOPS!
But heaven knows how much Fiennesy pulled avoiding the North Sea in a 90 deg dive one night in his Lightning!G tolerance reduces without practice though - as we usually found out on Day 1 at ACMI....
Last edited by BEagle; 5th Nov 2012 at 21:03.
The main trick of that suit was that it is liquid filled in many small capillaries instead of using air pressure.
Liquid has pretty much the same density as human blood, so the the centrifugal force of the liquid equalises the increasing pressure of the blood in the lower parts.
I think I read that meanwhile the USAF has adopted the same concept for the Raptor pilots but I'm not 100% sure.
Last edited by henra; 5th Nov 2012 at 21:08.
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Funny thing was, at Chiv, old age and treachery in a base height brawl often beat the young racing snakes. All down to a bit more experience of pulling G, rather than fitness and skill.
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My last posting was working on the development kit being tested at Farnborough. Back then the Typhoon was the EF2000 and the kit comprised Full Coverage Anti G Trousers, commonly known as FCAGTS or faggots, socks which attached to these and a pressure vest built into the LSJ. I don't know how many of these bits got past that stage.
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No, not the Libelle suit, but a 'Giraffe' suit. Invented by a Swiss designer at the German Air Force Institute of Aviation Medicine, it is a one-piece suit which uses air, not liquid.
See BBC iPlayer - Richard Hammond's Miracles of Nature: Super-Bodies from 16:07 onwards - clip is about 14 min.
See BBC iPlayer - Richard Hammond's Miracles of Nature: Super-Bodies from 16:07 onwards - clip is about 14 min.
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Sustained 9G
I had the pleasure of flying in a Belgian F16 some years ago and was invited to earn my 9G pin by sustaining 9G+ for more than 30 Sec. A spiral descent in full burner did the trick, but it was a challenge to do anything more than a constrained lookout and monitor the G in the HUD with just a pair of G-pants for that amount of time.
Tash - I also took part in the Typhoon AEA testing at Farnborough doing sustained 10G in the centrifuge. The kit and pressure breathing made it quite easy to do the basics.
Tash - I also took part in the Typhoon AEA testing at Farnborough doing sustained 10G in the centrifuge. The kit and pressure breathing made it quite easy to do the basics.
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I am sure that Mr Fiennes did well that night. Although memory is slipping it was quite high. G meter in the cockpit , I think went up to 9 G , so this was on the stop, and the fatigue meter was reading 10 G. It was leaking fuel well on taxi in !!
No, not the Libelle suit, but a 'Giraffe' suit. Invented by a Swiss designer at the German Air Force Institute of Aviation Medicine, it is a one-piece suit which uses air, not liquid.
See BBC iPlayer - Richard Hammond's Miracles of Nature: Super-Bodies from 16:07 onwards - clip is about 14 min.
See BBC iPlayer - Richard Hammond's Miracles of Nature: Super-Bodies from 16:07 onwards - clip is about 14 min.
I've never heard of that !? Any Idea from which manufacturer it is?
The GAF uses Libelle from Autoflug GmbH. That was a design originally developed by Swiss company Life Support Systems AG (by Andreas Reinhard) and now also sold via Swiss-German Autoflug.
Early Comparison:
http://www.safeeurope.co.uk/media/2767/ola%20eiken.pdf
The following Link points to the two different anti g systems used by the different Typhoon users: FCAGTS (air pressure based) and Libelle (Liquid based):
Flightgear On-Line, the website for the collector of military flightgear
Last edited by henra; 6th Nov 2012 at 18:38.
Check out the BBC iPlayer for the explanation about the Giraffe thing. It is very interesting. There are a few bits missing from the science there, but pretty good none the less.
I'll try that. I received a hint how I might be able to watch that where I am. Normally it is blocked outside UK.
I didn't understand the giraffe analogy at all - did I miss something?
Anyway, not a problem Mr Hammond would have I do envy him the ability to feel comfortable in an Elise.
That Libelle principle seems interestingly logical and so obvious that I'm astonished it hadn't been used before.
Anyway, not a problem Mr Hammond would have
I do envy him the ability to feel comfortable in an Elise.That Libelle principle seems interestingly logical and so obvious that I'm astonished it hadn't been used before.
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Normally it is blocked outside UK
It gives you a UK IP address and enables you to watch BBC iPlayer outside the UK.
Works on a PC, not sure about iPads etc.
Last edited by rightbank; 7th Nov 2012 at 07:05.