Solution to lack of long range airborne SAR
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Solution to lack of long range airborne SAR
Passenger jets swoop to 4,000ft to rescue stricken sailor | The Sun |News
Sorted, no need for Nimrod on SAR at all, just call up a passing airliner.
Sorted, no need for Nimrod on SAR at all, just call up a passing airliner.
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and some fell on stony ground
I suppose if you have to try and explain irony you might as well not bother, but I'll have a go.
Seadrill (now there's an ironic nickname given the subject) the UK had a long range maritime patrol aircraft called the Nimrod. An aircraft and crew were on standby 24/7. If a yachtsman happened to go missing at sea the crew (and possibly follow on crews) would be launched and carry out the Search part of Search and Rescue until said yachtsman was found or the search was called off.
I was just tongue in cheek making a facile comment pointing out that perhaps the scrapping of the Nimrod didn't matter so much if one could call upon the services of passing long haul airliners to conduct ad hoc datum investigations out on the (in our case) Atlantic Ocean.
Come to think of it though, the RAAF still does have platforms capable of conducting such long range search missions, I wonder whether they used them in this case and if not why not? and if they did how come Air Canada could find him and they didn't?
Wish I'd never said anything now............
Seadrill (now there's an ironic nickname given the subject) the UK had a long range maritime patrol aircraft called the Nimrod. An aircraft and crew were on standby 24/7. If a yachtsman happened to go missing at sea the crew (and possibly follow on crews) would be launched and carry out the Search part of Search and Rescue until said yachtsman was found or the search was called off.
I was just tongue in cheek making a facile comment pointing out that perhaps the scrapping of the Nimrod didn't matter so much if one could call upon the services of passing long haul airliners to conduct ad hoc datum investigations out on the (in our case) Atlantic Ocean.
Come to think of it though, the RAAF still does have platforms capable of conducting such long range search missions, I wonder whether they used them in this case and if not why not? and if they did how come Air Canada could find him and they didn't?
Wish I'd never said anything now............
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Radar
"Come to think of it though, the RAAF still does have platforms capable of conducting such long range search missions,"
Do you class 270nm long range ?
How come the RAAF can find Asylum seekers further out than that ?
Also, don't we have (C-130's) although now C-17's and other jets
that could / are used. They used one to find a Politician on a mountain
in Victoria which had some special capability on it
"Come to think of it though, the RAAF still does have platforms capable of conducting such long range search missions,"
Do you class 270nm long range ?
How come the RAAF can find Asylum seekers further out than that ?
Also, don't we have (C-130's) although now C-17's and other jets
that could / are used. They used one to find a Politician on a mountain
in Victoria which had some special capability on it
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They used one to find a Politician on a mountain
in Victoria which had some special capability on it
in Victoria which had some special capability on it
Last edited by The Helpful Stacker; 18th Oct 2012 at 22:12.
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Seadrills... the Nimrod that was cancelled & cut up recently was the MR4... a modernization of the venerable Nimrod MR1/2 (development started 1964, first flight 1967, service entry 1969).
Nimrod variants:
MR1: 46 built.
MR2: 35 upgraded from MR1 starting 1975.
R1: 3 built 1974, a 4th converted from a MR2 1995-96.
AEW3: 11 converted from the remaining MR1s 1977-~1985, never worked correctly and canceled 1986.
MR4: 21 to be "converted" from MR2 (new wings and heavily rebuilt fuselages), reduced to 16 in 2004, and eventually reduced to 9 in 2008... with only 5 actually completed. Program started 1992, canceled 2010.
Nimrod variants:
MR1: 46 built.
MR2: 35 upgraded from MR1 starting 1975.
R1: 3 built 1974, a 4th converted from a MR2 1995-96.
AEW3: 11 converted from the remaining MR1s 1977-~1985, never worked correctly and canceled 1986.
MR4: 21 to be "converted" from MR2 (new wings and heavily rebuilt fuselages), reduced to 16 in 2004, and eventually reduced to 9 in 2008... with only 5 actually completed. Program started 1992, canceled 2010.
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Helpful stacker,
OK, I should have worded it better.
Anyway, after the first media flurry of comments, they got the media
to shut it down and remove all references to the plane which of course
then made people even more suspicious !!!
OK, I should have worded it better.
Anyway, after the first media flurry of comments, they got the media
to shut it down and remove all references to the plane which of course
then made people even more suspicious !!!
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I don't know where the 19 RAAF AP-3Cs actually were, but both patrol squadrons (and the OCU) are based at RAAF Base Edinburgh, which is in South Australia... in the middle of the country on the south coast (not far from Adelaide).
They have permanent detachments at Darwin (centered on the north coast of Australia) and at RMAF Base Butterworth, Malaysia (on the west coast of the peninsula).
I can find no mention of detachments elsewhere... although putting ones in Perth, Hobart (or Melbourne), and Brisbane would be logical to me.
The airliners found the yacht "270 miles off Sydney"... and Sydney is ~720 miles from RAAF Edinburgh and ~ 1,950 miles from Darwin.
I suspect that, with the 330 knot cruising speed of the AP-3C, even if there were some at Sydney Kingsford Smith Airport, they would have still asked the airliners to look for the yacht, just to confirm its location as fast as possible.
They have permanent detachments at Darwin (centered on the north coast of Australia) and at RMAF Base Butterworth, Malaysia (on the west coast of the peninsula).
I can find no mention of detachments elsewhere... although putting ones in Perth, Hobart (or Melbourne), and Brisbane would be logical to me.
The airliners found the yacht "270 miles off Sydney"... and Sydney is ~720 miles from RAAF Edinburgh and ~ 1,950 miles from Darwin.
I suspect that, with the 330 knot cruising speed of the AP-3C, even if there were some at Sydney Kingsford Smith Airport, they would have still asked the airliners to look for the yacht, just to confirm its location as fast as possible.
Last edited by GreenKnight121; 18th Oct 2012 at 22:46.
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You forgot about RAAF base Richmond so that would have made him
300nm from Take off point.
I agree, they have used Airlines before to look for missing boats,
just not normally such a fast and good outcome !!!
.
300nm from Take off point.
I agree, they have used Airlines before to look for missing boats,
just not normally such a fast and good outcome !!!
.
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As I said, I could find no mention of any AP-3C detachment locations other than Butterworth, Darwin, and Edinburgh.
Whether RAAF Base Richmond or Sydney Kingsford Smith Airport, that is still a full hour flight just to get the AP-3C within the search area.
Whether RAAF Base Richmond or Sydney Kingsford Smith Airport, that is still a full hour flight just to get the AP-3C within the search area.
Last edited by GreenKnight121; 18th Oct 2012 at 22:50.
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With a range of over 5000 miles (9000 kms), I can't see why you are worried
as I somehow don't think a yatch a few nm's off Sydney is a major problem.
Edinburgh, a quick flight to Richmond, fuel top up piss stop
and they are off.
Can't see why you would land at Kingsford Smith and have to pay
landing fees when you have Richmond available for free plus
on site support.
Isn't it best to locate in one location and fly to where needed
than have small dets all over the place ?
Edinburgh is a good location for East and West coast access.
Just my HO.
as I somehow don't think a yatch a few nm's off Sydney is a major problem.
Edinburgh, a quick flight to Richmond, fuel top up piss stop
and they are off.
Can't see why you would land at Kingsford Smith and have to pay
landing fees when you have Richmond available for free plus
on site support.
Isn't it best to locate in one location and fly to where needed
than have small dets all over the place ?
Edinburgh is a good location for East and West coast access.
Just my HO.
Last edited by 500N; 18th Oct 2012 at 23:01.
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So they didn't fly the Nimrod but they retained a long range MPA and SAR capability ..... Whereas the UKs MPA and SAR capability has been taken on by Cobham ..... Are they doing a good job?
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Cue: long thread from us all about the plane we wish was still flying.
More relevant: can't imagine 'risk averse "Big Airline"' authorising such reckless behaviour from its flight crew. Cos unless you do it the "Big Airline Way" it's too dangerous for anyone else in the world to possibly do.
More relevant: can't imagine 'risk averse "Big Airline"' authorising such reckless behaviour from its flight crew. Cos unless you do it the "Big Airline Way" it's too dangerous for anyone else in the world to possibly do.
What's the big deal? There are plenty of resources around - raaf p3s, sar dorniers in melbourne (coastguard I think?), c130s etc etc however, Maybe it was a case of the beacon is detected and there happened to be a commercial aircraft in close proximity - so why wait for hours for an aircraft to be dispatched when one was pretty much on scene to assist with location and perhaps an initial assessment in a timely manner?
I am sure if further assistance was required a more appropriate aircraft would have been dispatched in order to drop rafts and provide top cover?
Cheers
I am sure if further assistance was required a more appropriate aircraft would have been dispatched in order to drop rafts and provide top cover?
Cheers
Last edited by Turkeyslapper; 20th Oct 2012 at 03:28.
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Call me old fashioned but having whittled away our MRA capability as an Island Nation, I find it Ironic that even land locked Luxembourg has an MRA capability.
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.ph...d=74&Itemid=30
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.ph...d=74&Itemid=30
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MR4: 21 to be "converted" from MR2 (new wings and heavily rebuilt fuselages), reduced to 16 in 2004, and eventually reduced to 9 in 2008... with only 5 actually completed. Program started 1992, canceled 2010.
Just one thing missing...
Cost to tax payer for 18 years of nothing at all...circa £3.5 Billion.
May I be the first (but by no means the only one) to say...back in '95...I 'kin told you so.
