Should've been fixed by now?

[melmothtw]

Touché Halton Brat, and written like a true ppruner.

GFB was correct,

there is more than one way to be "an annoying knob"

[paull]

Halton Brat.
If I might just remind you of the description of this forum.

A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.

I am pretty sure that one of the backroom boys or girls from non-UK forces would have a hard time understanding some of the more obscure jargon. Perhaps your intention is to exclude by other means, and of course your are always free to do so, but it does not seem to be in the intended spirit of the forum.

Oh, and in anticipation of the obvious question, no I am not ex-Mil, but being responsible for some of the mathematics that keeps missiles away from those that are, I at least feel I have a valid interest.

[melmothtw]

unlike yourself, whose greatest peril was probably an ill-fitting pair of
Boots, DMS.

It depends on what you mean by 'peril' Halton. While it's true that I didn't storm the beaches at Normandy or mix it up with Messerschmitts in the Battle of Britain, as a defence journalist I have spent time in some of the less savoury parts of Afghanistan (is there any other part?).

I travelled in the same vehicles as the soldiers I was embedded with, walked the same roads and, dare I say it, shared the same perils. In fact, seeing as the Taliban actively target journalists and I had nothing on my person with which to defend myself save for a pen, a notebook and the bargain basement body armour I had to buy myself off Ebay, it could be argued I was in somewhat greater peril than the soldiers who kindly let me accompany them.

The point about an internet forum such as this Halton Brat and others is that it is anonymous, and that you know nothing about the other people you are chatting to other than their moniker. Consequently, you know nothing about who they are or what their life experiences are.

Just something that might be worth bearing in mind.

[Halton Brat]

Paull, indeed, "all equally welcome here".

However, I object to anyone using offensive language towards my fellow ex/current servicemen/women. Especially ex-CCF cadets...........

Melmo, kudos for you for going to a war zone voluntarily & hopefully shedding light on this conflict. Your choice to go, and your choice to leave no doubt; those who serve would envy such freedoms.

Perhaps you suffered from an excess of military banter/repartee & vocabulary during this experience; please indulge us our whimsical expressions - this is the habit of a lifetime for many.

Here's how it works - you respect us, we respect you - simples!

HB

[melmothtw]

all equally welcome here

So it would seem.

[melmothtw]

Melmo, kudos for you for going to a war zone voluntarily & hopefully
shedding light on this conflict. Your choice to go, and your choice to leave no
doubt; those who serve would envy such freedoms.

Their choice to join, and I didn't do it for kudos.

[SOSL]

mel

Then why boast about it?

Even anonymously.

Rgds SOS

[oldmansquipper]

FAO: Peppermint Jam

The campanologist person you referred to earlier...is that the famed Richard Cranium, perchance?

[melmothtw]

Then why boast about it?

Even anonymously.

Rgds SOS

I certainly didn't post it as a boast. I only mentioned it as this was the second time I have been called out on here for 'never having been in peril', as though peril were the sole preserve of military types.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

you respect us, we respect you

Hold on. We have to respect the hired help these days?

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Originally Posted by melmothtw

GFB was correct,
Quote:
there is more than one way to be "an annoying knob"

Melmothtw, Sir; I trust that your journalistic endeavours exercise greater accuracy than your quotes.

[melmothtw]

We've already established I'm not military, so you can dispense with the 'sir'.

[goudie]

Meanwhile, is the bloody tonka still u/s?

We do need to know!

[Rigga]

..did you mean Tornado?

[Out Of Trim]

Anyway, is the MRCA about to be fixed then??

[Ogre]

TT2

My comment was more around the principle of "There is a fault (allegedly) therefore you must change something" backed up with the problem of not having the spares you need.

Therefore you change something that you do have a spare of in the hope that it makes the fault go away, although how many "faults" end up being unrepeatable was always a cause for concern.

But I agree the level of diagnostic engineering appears to be on the wane. It was so much easier with valves, you just looked for the cold ones.....

[AR1]

15 years and the most dangerous thing I did was travel to work in a fine fully enclosed horseless carriage.
Still, my time equipped me to express myself in suitably cryptic terms.

As for the Tornado - If it were somewhere nice, I'm sure it would have a full compliment of Her Majestys finest spanner weilding fiends and 24 EngO's to look after it.

[flipflopman RB199]

Rigga,

Having read your post, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to call BS on your points.

I think its more to do with ground trades degradation of capabilities.

In the new MOD training regime; Fault Finding is a separate course from trade training?

In the last few weeks I have heard a few disturbing stories ranging from: Chinook engineers struggling to fix one at Staverton for some four days when a passing "old boy" recognised a visiting WO (sent to see what the issue was) stuck his nose in and pointed out what the issue was, more than 18 years since leaving the RAF!

In a second example; There was recently a perceived "need" for a WOs pre-departure walk-around before Puma's left a certain maintenance base? When the WO left the Stn Questions of who was going to do the check were asked! Surely Team Sgts and Chiefs are supposed to do that sort of thing? (or why can't they?)
What on Earth is going on?

Firstly, as someone who is now involved in both the development and delivery of this "new MOD training regime" I can tell you categorically and first hand that fault finding is very much an integral and repeated part of engineering trade training. The students are repeatedly tested and examined on their fault finding abilities throughout their FT course, just as you yourself once were.

Whilst certain areas of training may differ in the degree of depth they once covered, that reflects upon the scope the engineer now has to adjust and play with those components. I could tell you the ins and the outs of the Adour 104 fuel systems and all of it's inner workings down to spill valves and bellows, but ultimately, we were limited to small FCU and SIFCU adjustments only, before replacement was required. Even these adjustments were taken from us with the introduction of the Adour 106, with any adjustments to be carried out by the manufacturer only.

This does not mean in any way that the technicians of today are trained any less, just differently. Just as your forebears would scoff at you not being a trained expert in wing rigging and canvas and dope repairs.

Regarding your stories, I would point out that there are two sides to every story and in my experience, the truth usually lies somewhere between the two. I'm sure you can picture the handful of salt I'm currently taking those stories with.


Flipflopman

[Stuff]

FFM - you jest but EASA part-66 Cat B1 are still taught doping and carpentry while the current generation of mil maintainers stopped with that nonsense years ago.

In many ways the mil system is still a long way ahead of any Part 145 organisation although you'll never hear the civvies admit it.

I still remember a particularly stubborn GR4 that refused to pass it's CSAS BIT before a TF sortie until the trade assist appeared and whacked 7 types or *%^$ out of the outboard pylon with the rubber chock. Aircraft passed the CSAS BIT right away after that. When we were doing battle with LITS on the sign-in he reappeared to explain in minute detail how the system worked and why the "fix" fixed the issue.

The training might be a bit different but someone is going to have to try very, very hard to convince me that civ trg produces better results than mil trg. In my experience the opposite is the case.

[Beancountercymru]

The Power of PPrune

Meanwhile back to the original post, it appears that this spurred the fixers into action and the GR4 flew off last night