70 Years On - RIP
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An interesting story and an excellent job.
Some excellent photos in the Daily Mail.
Some excellent photos in the Daily Mail.
Last edited by 500N; 21st Sep 2012 at 21:00.
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The German military recovered two of the bodies from the wreckage - thought to have been Sgt Cope and Canadian Pilot Officer Watt - and buried them.
Wonder what the headstone will record as it is not clear how many actual remains have been found.
The Daily Mail has some photos of the crew and comments about ejector seats....
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Lancaster ED427 Discovery
"Wonder what the headstone will record as it is not clear how many actual remains have been found."
Depends if the experts can identify bones from all of the crew members or just some, or if no positive ID is possible. Despite what TV drama's suggest it is not always easy to link small bone fragments to named individuals many years after the event, particularly if they are damaged or burnt.
If no positive ID is possible I believe the remains will be buried as "remains of the crew of Lancaster ED427" under a single headstone. If all the remains are linked to one or two crew members (disappointing for those relatives where no remains of their loved one are found) they will be buried as the individuals concerned, but in the best scenario, remains of all crew members will be positively identified even if only one or two bones, then I believe all are given an individual headstone even if buried in a single coffin. The MoD / RAF did something along these lines in Malaysia earier this year for the crew & pax of Dakota KN630. Dakota Crash
Coverage also in the Telegraph
Bodies of five British airmen from Second World War found - Telegraph
Depends if the experts can identify bones from all of the crew members or just some, or if no positive ID is possible. Despite what TV drama's suggest it is not always easy to link small bone fragments to named individuals many years after the event, particularly if they are damaged or burnt.
If no positive ID is possible I believe the remains will be buried as "remains of the crew of Lancaster ED427" under a single headstone. If all the remains are linked to one or two crew members (disappointing for those relatives where no remains of their loved one are found) they will be buried as the individuals concerned, but in the best scenario, remains of all crew members will be positively identified even if only one or two bones, then I believe all are given an individual headstone even if buried in a single coffin. The MoD / RAF did something along these lines in Malaysia earier this year for the crew & pax of Dakota KN630. Dakota Crash
Coverage also in the Telegraph
Bodies of five British airmen from Second World War found - Telegraph
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
What worries me is that the representatives of both the IWM at Duxford and the RAF Museum mention the difficulty of getting to the ejector seats. One would have thought that those were the two outfits who would know better.
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Herod -
That's the understatement of the year!
While I accept that the following comment -
Ejector seats require the occupant to be conscious and capable of pulling the handle (there are some exceptions, but this is the general principle).
If the crew were indeed severely injured or unconscious, they would not have been able to operate the seat, even had they the facility available to them. -
is not in quotes, it would appear to be attributed to Mr Pratt of the IWM Duxford. If, indeed, the information emanated from him for this piece he should go straight to the top of the class for idiocy - or should that be "pratness". If not he should ask for his name to be dissociated from it and an apology be given.....
It's a pity because in other respects this is a rather better effort by the Mail than we are used to in aviation though of course the people who write this stuff have no direct knowledge so have to be guided properly. It appears that the author was very "misguided" on this occasion.
That's the understatement of the year!
While I accept that the following comment -
Ejector seats require the occupant to be conscious and capable of pulling the handle (there are some exceptions, but this is the general principle).
If the crew were indeed severely injured or unconscious, they would not have been able to operate the seat, even had they the facility available to them. -
is not in quotes, it would appear to be attributed to Mr Pratt of the IWM Duxford. If, indeed, the information emanated from him for this piece he should go straight to the top of the class for idiocy - or should that be "pratness". If not he should ask for his name to be dissociated from it and an apology be given.....
It's a pity because in other respects this is a rather better effort by the Mail than we are used to in aviation though of course the people who write this stuff have no direct knowledge so have to be guided properly. It appears that the author was very "misguided" on this occasion.
Last edited by rgsaero; 22nd Sep 2012 at 17:49.
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Herod and rgsaero
The journalist asked, "We were wondering why the men didn’t just parachute out of the plane. Is it possible the cockpit may have taken a direct hit, they didn’t have time? Would modern-day ejector seats have helped?"
Perhaps we should have told her the last part was a silly question...
The journalist asked, "We were wondering why the men didn’t just parachute out of the plane. Is it possible the cockpit may have taken a direct hit, they didn’t have time? Would modern-day ejector seats have helped?"
Perhaps we should have told her the last part was a silly question...
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is not in quotes, it would appear to be attributed to Mr Pratt of the IWM Duxford. If, indeed, the information emanated from him for this piece he should go straight to the top of the class for idiocy - or should that be "pratness". If not he should ask for his name to be dissociated from it and an apology be given.....
After reading the Daily Mail article I would suggest that Paragraphs Six & seven have been inserted in the incorrect position and should in fact have been the final two paragraphs.So I think reference to Pratness is a little harsh.
PK etc.
After reading the Daily Mail article I would suggest that Paragraphs Six & seven have been inserted in the incorrect position and should in fact have been the final two paragraphs.So I think reference to Pratness is a little harsh.
PK etc.
