Camp Bastion attack
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Well it's probably the first sensible thing they have done to try to remove the fighter cover. Not that I am condoning it, just suprised it never happened sooner.
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tonker
From the various media reports, they were advancing towards the RAF Regt guys
and wounded a few of them.
Nutloose,
Agree, I often wondered why they didn't try to attack the jets at Bastion.
Even feint attacks every so often would keep resources tied up.
From the various media reports, they were advancing towards the RAF Regt guys
and wounded a few of them.
Nutloose,
Agree, I often wondered why they didn't try to attack the jets at Bastion.
Even feint attacks every so often would keep resources tied up.
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Something you avoid mentioning but every war since its inception it's been the key... Not that a single attack will take out your assets, you learn and you simply disperse it, even on a camp that size it has to be possible, but you do wonder why it wasnt done before, that said I am simply looking at it as the press have reported it, which is often far from the truth.
Last edited by NutLoose; 16th Sep 2012 at 21:35.
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Nutloose
I think the enemy have slightly less options now than before.
Suicide bombers and fighters storming the place like they did is one way.
Previously, lobbing Mortar and Arty shells was another but with
the counter battery radar and the sheer speed they can have rounds
going being returned accurately, it has to some extent probably removed
this from the equation. Plus of course getting it close in an area that is
probably patrolled non stop !
I think the enemy have slightly less options now than before.
Suicide bombers and fighters storming the place like they did is one way.
Previously, lobbing Mortar and Arty shells was another but with
the counter battery radar and the sheer speed they can have rounds
going being returned accurately, it has to some extent probably removed
this from the equation. Plus of course getting it close in an area that is
probably patrolled non stop !
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Easy Street
Like what you have to say about early days in Afghanistan. My take on this misadventure is that if we'd applied a fraction of the resources we threw at Iraq in 03 to Afghanistan, we my be looking at a more benign scenario. We are operating against a resurgent Taliban, whereas if we'd been a bit more serious about fostering and bolstering the Afghan central government and security forces in the early days, we may have been better placed to walk away from a reasonably stable situation.
Like many on here I was involved in the move into Iraq. I wasn't too bothered about the morality of it as we were resolving a situation that we'd left festering since 91. However, even at the time, before we became aware of dodgy dossiers, I just didn't see the hurry. It's interesting to ruminate on what might have been if we'd just sat on Saddam and let the whole thing play out. Maybe the Arab Spring would have emerged first in Baghdad. Certainly, the horrible sectarian, low-level civil war that blew-up in the aftermath of the invasion was always on the cards. It might have been better for all of us if we'd allowed them to get there on their own. The current emerging sectarian civil war in Syria bears all the hallmarks. There are many festering internal conflicts in these countries that we would do well to stay clear of.
As for Afghanistan, I hope we disengage from Afghanistan leaving some semblance of a stable government that can show some persistence. He may be a bit unstable but I hope that Karzai or his successor doesn't meet the same end as poor old Najibullah...
Like many on here I was involved in the move into Iraq. I wasn't too bothered about the morality of it as we were resolving a situation that we'd left festering since 91. However, even at the time, before we became aware of dodgy dossiers, I just didn't see the hurry. It's interesting to ruminate on what might have been if we'd just sat on Saddam and let the whole thing play out. Maybe the Arab Spring would have emerged first in Baghdad. Certainly, the horrible sectarian, low-level civil war that blew-up in the aftermath of the invasion was always on the cards. It might have been better for all of us if we'd allowed them to get there on their own. The current emerging sectarian civil war in Syria bears all the hallmarks. There are many festering internal conflicts in these countries that we would do well to stay clear of.
As for Afghanistan, I hope we disengage from Afghanistan leaving some semblance of a stable government that can show some persistence. He may be a bit unstable but I hope that Karzai or his successor doesn't meet the same end as poor old Najibullah...
Am I missing something here...I don't know if has been commented upon.
But why the PR release of Harry's deployment, on day 1, and acknowledging his airbase? Sure it may have been broken later by the media, but that may have given him a couple of month's breathing space, like last time in 2008.
Public release of this by MOD has not been handled well.
But why the PR release of Harry's deployment, on day 1, and acknowledging his airbase? Sure it may have been broken later by the media, but that may have given him a couple of month's breathing space, like last time in 2008.
Public release of this by MOD has not been handled well.
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BB
I thought the same thing, why on Day 1 ?
Sure, take along the TV crew and the Photographer
but put all the pictures under wraps for a short while
until everything is settled, then when the story breaks,
they can say, "Yes, so what, he's been there for a while".
Or when the story was released, have him well away
from the location at the time.
.
I thought the same thing, why on Day 1 ?
Sure, take along the TV crew and the Photographer
but put all the pictures under wraps for a short while
until everything is settled, then when the story breaks,
they can say, "Yes, so what, he's been there for a while".
Or when the story was released, have him well away
from the location at the time.
.
Last edited by 500N; 17th Sep 2012 at 00:57.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
mel, you are probably correct as having penetrated so far in that capture becomes inevitable they may then be able to take a few more with them on their way up (or down).
I guess they were a bit like a 'forlorn hope' but with no follow on force.
I guess they were a bit like a 'forlorn hope' but with no follow on force.
It is hard to deter anyone that is bent upon dying for their cause....there is no down side in it for them as they care not to continue living.
That in my book makes them into the most dangerous kinds of folks extant.
That in my book makes them into the most dangerous kinds of folks extant.
I'm not sufficiently versed on the capabilities of the later generation SAMs and MANPADS or the Apache's counter measures - nor do I believe they should be discussed here. But the notion of the AH fraternity being invincible is dangerous IMHO. It smacks of a failure to understand risk and probability. These 'tail risk' events can and do happen. Just look at the financial industry and its failure to fully appreciate tail risk (or dismiss it as unlikely). These so called 1 in 100 year tail events are happening now every 4 or 5 years?!
I would imagine that sufficient 'enabling nations' would readily supply some latest generation kit and possibly trained personnel to ensure that AH was targeted with the expressed outcome of taking out HRH. The MoD have not handled the release of this information well - and I wonder if there was direction from the Palace to divert attention away from the Vegas incident?
As someone said before, there is no difference between firing a MANPAD and becoming an instant target than there is to being a suicide vest wearing bomber.
We fail to fully appreciate or understand 'Terry's' mindset, ideals and want for martyrdom to be able to come to terms with their tenacity and drive to rid the world of Zionist infidels. Afghanistan has always been the graveyard of external political will and ideals. When we leave Terry will be rubbing his hands - he just needs to bide his time until he can revert to ops normal. Sad tho it is.
I would imagine that sufficient 'enabling nations' would readily supply some latest generation kit and possibly trained personnel to ensure that AH was targeted with the expressed outcome of taking out HRH. The MoD have not handled the release of this information well - and I wonder if there was direction from the Palace to divert attention away from the Vegas incident?
As someone said before, there is no difference between firing a MANPAD and becoming an instant target than there is to being a suicide vest wearing bomber.
We fail to fully appreciate or understand 'Terry's' mindset, ideals and want for martyrdom to be able to come to terms with their tenacity and drive to rid the world of Zionist infidels. Afghanistan has always been the graveyard of external political will and ideals. When we leave Terry will be rubbing his hands - he just needs to bide his time until he can revert to ops normal. Sad tho it is.
he notion of the AH fraternity being invincible is dangerous IMHO.
Even Bad Guys have Good Days sometimes.....which means Good Guys have Bad days too!
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SaSless
And remember, a bad guy only has to be lucky once to have a good day,
a good guy has to be lucky all the time.
As you well know !
And remember, a bad guy only has to be lucky once to have a good day,
a good guy has to be lucky all the time.
As you well know !
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Harry's conversion, work up, pre-deployment training etc etc have all been so well documented as to make the press release almost preordained. I doubt the incident caused any change in the release.
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Grim
Have you ever asked yourself why Iran doesn't supply the Taliban with decent SAMs?
They have lots of them, and could easily supply them along with all the other munitions they smuggle across?
Have you ever asked yourself why Iran doesn't supply the Taliban with decent SAMs?
They have lots of them, and could easily supply them along with all the other munitions they smuggle across?
Tourist - a fair point, esp if you believe the Israel/Iran strike story in the Torygraph today. They may have need of them to protect No1
I'm not professing to be a tactics or doctrinal expert here - just playing Devil's advocate and airing a different point of view. Now that I'm allowed to have one ;-)
I'm not professing to be a tactics or doctrinal expert here - just playing Devil's advocate and airing a different point of view. Now that I'm allowed to have one ;-)
Last edited by Grimweasel; 17th Sep 2012 at 21:44.
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Grim
I think they have more than enough to let a few go to others if they
really wanted to but as Tourist indicated, once they do that and they
are used by whoever, it becomes a whole different ball game for Iran
- from everyone including probably Russia and China who are a bit
of a stop gap at the UN re Iran.
I think they have more than enough to let a few go to others if they
really wanted to but as Tourist indicated, once they do that and they
are used by whoever, it becomes a whole different ball game for Iran
- from everyone including probably Russia and China who are a bit
of a stop gap at the UN re Iran.
News report says it was the USMC Harrier Squadron Commanding Officer and a Marine NCO killed during the attack that destroyed six Harriers.
Squadron Commander Died in Taliban Attack - WSJ.com
Squadron Commander Died in Taliban Attack - WSJ.com