Heads Up - Channel 5 Series : Heroes of the Sky
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Heads Up - Channel 5 Series : Heroes of the Sky
All ...
20th Sep @ 20:00 Hrs Channel 5 ... starting with Douglas Bader.
Best regards ...
Coff.
20th Sep @ 20:00 Hrs Channel 5 ... starting with Douglas Bader.
Best regards ...
Coff.
Thanks for the heads-up. An interesting choice of character for the first episode, especially given the proximity to 15th September. I have no doubt that the likes of Bader, Stanford-Tuck, 'Johnnie' Johnson etc would be considered by many to be the true 'heros of the air', it would be nice if Dowding and Park finally received some of the acclaim that they should have had but were denied due to political wrangling and character assassination (and we all thought the Army was bad at politics - not a patch on the RAF!)
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I once had dinner with Wg Cdr John Freeborn DFC* RAF. When I asked him what he did, he replied that he flew more hours and more sorties during the BoB than anyone else! After I got back in my box, he then went on to tell me exactly what he thought of Douglas Bader. None of it is repeatable - even on PPRuNe! Needless to say, he was less than complimentary! Sadly, he died in Aug 2010.
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Douglas Bader seemed to be able to generate the most widely-polarised sentiments in those he encountered in life; truly a 'love or hate' character, with seemingly no middle-ground opinion of him. His acolytes, such as Johnson & Crowley-Milling, would clearly have flown through the gates of Hell with him.
I read somewhere an anecdote told by Kenneth More, who played DB in Danny Angel's 'Reach for the Sky' film. More was a guest at a Dining In night somewhere, & mentioned to the PMC that he intended to speak about DB & the film in his after-dinner speech. The PMC strongly advised him not to, as some at the dinner had been PoW with DB and had suffered considerably from his 'performances' with the German guards & officers.
Personally, I feel that the only reason DB ever got back into the RAF & the cockpit of a Spitfire was precisely because of the character traits which many colleagues found so objectionable. Did the same traits lead to his terrible Bulldog crash in 1933, perhaps......?
HB
I read somewhere an anecdote told by Kenneth More, who played DB in Danny Angel's 'Reach for the Sky' film. More was a guest at a Dining In night somewhere, & mentioned to the PMC that he intended to speak about DB & the film in his after-dinner speech. The PMC strongly advised him not to, as some at the dinner had been PoW with DB and had suffered considerably from his 'performances' with the German guards & officers.
Personally, I feel that the only reason DB ever got back into the RAF & the cockpit of a Spitfire was precisely because of the character traits which many colleagues found so objectionable. Did the same traits lead to his terrible Bulldog crash in 1933, perhaps......?
HB
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Nicely dove tailling with this thread, Reach For The Sky is on Film 4 right now.
HB,
I believe the answer is in the book "Reach for the Sky". Apologise as it has been some time since I have read the book and therefore not 100% accurate but the gist is correct.
Stanford Tuck and (uncertain) Sailor Malan, watching Bader disappear (in car) after a rather strong discussion with superiors on whether to go cannons or stick with 303's (Bader being vehemently opposed to cannon's, typical Bader with his opinions being either in full support or full negative).
Tuck commenting on why Bader had to be so obstinate and bloody minded with Malan replying if he wasn't he would not have been here (meaning I guess that if he had not had those traits he would not have survived his injuries)
I believe the answer is in the book "Reach for the Sky". Apologise as it has been some time since I have read the book and therefore not 100% accurate but the gist is correct.
Stanford Tuck and (uncertain) Sailor Malan, watching Bader disappear (in car) after a rather strong discussion with superiors on whether to go cannons or stick with 303's (Bader being vehemently opposed to cannon's, typical Bader with his opinions being either in full support or full negative).
Tuck commenting on why Bader had to be so obstinate and bloody minded with Malan replying if he wasn't he would not have been here (meaning I guess that if he had not had those traits he would not have survived his injuries)
What about Leonard Cheshire, VC DSO DFC OM revered by his man, youngest Group Captain in the RAF at 28, dropped rank to lead 617, and out and out a fine human being. Not a pre war regular like Bader or Gibson, and nowhere near as well known like the majority of aircrew.
finestkind.
Your memory is accurate in the story but it was in 'Fly for your life'
Tuck's biography that I read it. Milan's first comment was 'Exit the demon king!'
mmitch.
Your memory is accurate in the story but it was in 'Fly for your life'
Tuck's biography that I read it. Milan's first comment was 'Exit the demon king!'
mmitch.
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They reckoned one of the advantages Bader had in combat was the fact he had lost his legs, rather like a modern G suit he was able to withstand greater G levels in combat than his adversaries as he had no pooling of blood issues in his lower extremities, hence he could withstand turns that would have others blacking out.
I remember he tried to get one guy charged during a visit for calling the RAF the "raff" as you say as opposed to R.A.F. when I was still in and he was a Civilian.
He also when visiting some Station on a visit in the twin he used to fly for Shell told the Corporal in charge of visiting aircraft to " fill it up" and when being asked quite rightly asked how he intended to pay, reverted to the " do you know who I am" cr*p and threatened to bring everything down on the poor guy, Bader was a totally obnoxious ****
Wasn't he shot down by one of his own side? I seem to remember a programme looking for his Spit that they believe is under a lake saying it was a member of his wing that got him... Also when I Colditz the man serving as his Batman was to be repatriated back to the UK because of being a none combatant and Bader stopped it happening...
Read
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/1027...-has-died.html
I remember he tried to get one guy charged during a visit for calling the RAF the "raff" as you say as opposed to R.A.F. when I was still in and he was a Civilian.
He also when visiting some Station on a visit in the twin he used to fly for Shell told the Corporal in charge of visiting aircraft to " fill it up" and when being asked quite rightly asked how he intended to pay, reverted to the " do you know who I am" cr*p and threatened to bring everything down on the poor guy, Bader was a totally obnoxious ****
Wasn't he shot down by one of his own side? I seem to remember a programme looking for his Spit that they believe is under a lake saying it was a member of his wing that got him... Also when I Colditz the man serving as his Batman was to be repatriated back to the UK because of being a none combatant and Bader stopped it happening...
Read
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/1027...-has-died.html
Last edited by NutLoose; 15th Sep 2012 at 18:34.
mmm ... he came to a secret airbase in Shropshire to 'open' a Christmas Fayre (sic) - kicked up a lot of fuss on being asked to be transported to the site in a helo..
Cometh the hour, cometh the man etc., but disappointing nevertheless
Cometh the hour, cometh the man etc., but disappointing nevertheless
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
FZ, he wasn't the only one that thought everything was free. I stayed at Carlisle one night. They were very keen to confirm I was active service. A 'Gp Capt' had stayed there overnight one night - thought everything was free.
There was a flt lt, owned a very large warbird, used to expect a free fill, not just once but on return after another air display elsewhere. I think a former Red Arrow also expected free top ups.
There was a flt lt, owned a very large warbird, used to expect a free fill, not just once but on return after another air display elsewhere. I think a former Red Arrow also expected free top ups.
As an LAC I was "whited up" to marshal him in at Tern Hill in 1975.
"His" Shell Cherokee decided it didn't want my services and so he parked it up near the grass outside the Stude's Crewroom and I walked away to await some instructions - my "mood" regarding hs arrogance was so tangible that my Sgt sent someone else to tank him up and wave him off.
I've never liked him since and used to take the p1ss out of him every chance I got...not that it bothered him much.
But I've always liked Kenneth More.
"His" Shell Cherokee decided it didn't want my services and so he parked it up near the grass outside the Stude's Crewroom and I walked away to await some instructions - my "mood" regarding hs arrogance was so tangible that my Sgt sent someone else to tank him up and wave him off.
I've never liked him since and used to take the p1ss out of him every chance I got...not that it bothered him much.
But I've always liked Kenneth More.
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Ain't that always the way! Even today tomorrow and the day after, DB will be the subject of uncomplimentary conversation about him. Paul Brickhill is on record as saying that DB insisted that he says in his book he was in a collision with a Me109. The official RAF records shows he was shot down, Adolf Galland said "there was no collision, he was shot down. If DB was alive he would still say that he had a collision.
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Hard to stop once you get started with DB.......
When it was later claimed that the Luftwaffe Me109 pilot who shot him down was a NCO pilot, this would have been too much for him to bear. He became even more trenchant in his view that he had collided with a Me109; the prospect of having been shot down by a member of the peasantry was inconceivable to him!
HB
When it was later claimed that the Luftwaffe Me109 pilot who shot him down was a NCO pilot, this would have been too much for him to bear. He became even more trenchant in his view that he had collided with a Me109; the prospect of having been shot down by a member of the peasantry was inconceivable to him!
HB