US Ambassador killed in Libya
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US Ambassador killed in Libya
BBC News - US ambassador 'killed in Libya'
Sad news about an attack on a diplomatic facility with resulting death of an Ambassador.
Sad news about an attack on a diplomatic facility with resulting death of an Ambassador.
Indeed, condolences to their families.
Law of uninintended consequences in operation. Seen this in the Balkans Iraq, now Arabian Spring. When will we ever learn.
Law of uninintended consequences in operation. Seen this in the Balkans Iraq, now Arabian Spring. When will we ever learn.
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Just watching it. We should never have got involved in removing Ghaddafi.
Atleast under him the country was stable and such a situation as we have just seen would have been highly unlikely to happen.
These revolutions are nothing but bad news for us in the long run. They will simply turn their nations into a new dark age. I can see in 10 to 15 years possibly a lot less a whole middle east united against the west.
I simply do not understand what Obama, Cameron, Sarko/Hollander are on. As for Syria best Assad remains as the alternative will be far worse!
Atleast under him the country was stable and such a situation as we have just seen would have been highly unlikely to happen.
These revolutions are nothing but bad news for us in the long run. They will simply turn their nations into a new dark age. I can see in 10 to 15 years possibly a lot less a whole middle east united against the west.
I simply do not understand what Obama, Cameron, Sarko/Hollander are on. As for Syria best Assad remains as the alternative will be far worse!
Ronald Regan, agree with you, remove the 'strongman/woman you get chaos. Look what happened when Tito died in Yugoslavia. Some countries populations unfortunately need a strong foot on the throat of the population to have a degree of peace or in other words, live peacefully, do not rock the boat, and work hard. Whilst Mubarak, Ghadaffi, Assad, and Hussein were and are out and out murders and despots they did have control unlike what we see at the moment. I'm surprised we haven't see more military take over in these countries.
To the west KEEP OUT, let them sort themselves out. Keep politicans away.
To the west KEEP OUT, let them sort themselves out. Keep politicans away.
Last edited by air pig; 12th Sep 2012 at 11:31.
I can see in 10 to 15 years possibly a lot less a whole middle east united against the west.
I fail to see how "western intervention" against Gaddafi Duck, led to this incident.
The actual reason they'd all be united against the West is :
a) The "west" generally (but not unequivocally) supports the democratically run state of Israel
b) The "west" intervened military to reverse the illegal invasion of Kuwait (alongside Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia and others)
c) The "west" intervened militarily in response to a major state-enabled terrorist attack (about 11 years ago)
d) The "west" intervened militarily nine years ago to remove a genocidal dictator and spent the next seven years trying to stop various state-sponsored factions of the "religion of peace" slaughtering each other indiscriminately
e) The "west" intervened militarily nearly two years ago to prevent another benevolent dictator using tanks, artillery and CAS against a rebel militia in heavily built-up areas full of non-combatants
f) It's easier than confronting the contradictions of their own religion and politics and their inability to make rational decisions without the assistance of various shouty, beardy clerics.
Answers on a postcard please.......
I fail to see how "western intervention" against Gaddafi Duck, led to this incident.
The actual reason they'd all be united against the West is :
a) The "west" generally (but not unequivocally) supports the democratically run state of Israel
b) The "west" intervened military to reverse the illegal invasion of Kuwait (alongside Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia and others)
c) The "west" intervened militarily in response to a major state-enabled terrorist attack (about 11 years ago)
d) The "west" intervened militarily nine years ago to remove a genocidal dictator and spent the next seven years trying to stop various state-sponsored factions of the "religion of peace" slaughtering each other indiscriminately
e) The "west" intervened militarily nearly two years ago to prevent another benevolent dictator using tanks, artillery and CAS against a rebel militia in heavily built-up areas full of non-combatants
f) It's easier than confronting the contradictions of their own religion and politics and their inability to make rational decisions without the assistance of various shouty, beardy clerics.
Answers on a postcard please.......
Last edited by Not_a_boffin; 12th Sep 2012 at 11:38.
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I simply think Ghadaffi would have used his military/police to prevent any riots from getting out of control. Especially close to an embassy.
He was cruel ofcourse, but he could maintain order.
American killed as radical Islamists storm U.S. Embassies in Cairo and Libya | Mail Online
These guys with AK-47s would have probably not had AK-47s under Ghadaffi or been able to get weapons. To be honest they would probably be in prison or dead!
Make no mistake about it, this attack is a kind blowback already from our continued intervention in these nations.
Bet people will still be itching to get into Syria!!!! I used to support all these little wars but now they all seem a total waste of time and they often end up far worse than before. We should stop trying to be the worlds policeman.
He was cruel ofcourse, but he could maintain order.
American killed as radical Islamists storm U.S. Embassies in Cairo and Libya | Mail Online
These guys with AK-47s would have probably not had AK-47s under Ghadaffi or been able to get weapons. To be honest they would probably be in prison or dead!
Make no mistake about it, this attack is a kind blowback already from our continued intervention in these nations.
Bet people will still be itching to get into Syria!!!! I used to support all these little wars but now they all seem a total waste of time and they often end up far worse than before. We should stop trying to be the worlds policeman.
Not a Boffin, Gulf War One was allowed under the terms of a UN Resolution, to just LIBERATE Kuwait, not to invade and occupy Iraq. Remember coalition forces stopped after the attacks on the road to Basra, and sorted out a ceasefire as Saddam was aware that the coalition could have keep going all the way to Baghdad. Gulf War Two was started on a basis of spin lies and deception by avaricious mendacious politicians and against the sprit of the UN.
To return to the main point, some countries with such disparate views and religions need to foot on the population to maintain peace. Lose that and the country descends into the situation which we now see in Libya, Syria and Iraq, of people slaughtering each other and poor ill educated people being manoeuvred and manipulated by both politicans and religious zealots for their own ends.
To return to the main point, some countries with such disparate views and religions need to foot on the population to maintain peace. Lose that and the country descends into the situation which we now see in Libya, Syria and Iraq, of people slaughtering each other and poor ill educated people being manoeuvred and manipulated by both politicans and religious zealots for their own ends.
Imagine, if you will, what Europe was like 600 years ago. Practically tribal, mostly feudal, generally ignorant, pretty violent, the population chained to dogmatic religious superstitions. Imagine what it would've been like if they'd had modern weapons?
The current Islamic year is 1433 AH. Discuss.
The current Islamic year is 1433 AH. Discuss.
Air pig
Perfectly well aware of the relevant UNSCR and objectives for Op Granby thanks. Your rationale for Op Telic is a somewhat subjective version, compared to the actual reality of what the nice man with the big moustache was (very) widely thought to have back in 2003 and more importantly his continued disregard for the existing UNSCR for inspections at the time. Still - hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Not exactly aware of huge swathes of the western population clamouring for intervention in Syria atm (or Libya back then, now I come to think of it). The only people I can think of who are implying that we should are the BBC / liberal tendency, with a "something must be done" inference in every blood-soaked news report. Why those f8ckers can't stick to the "sanctions will work" line they usually use, I'll never know......
Perfectly well aware of the relevant UNSCR and objectives for Op Granby thanks. Your rationale for Op Telic is a somewhat subjective version, compared to the actual reality of what the nice man with the big moustache was (very) widely thought to have back in 2003 and more importantly his continued disregard for the existing UNSCR for inspections at the time. Still - hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Not exactly aware of huge swathes of the western population clamouring for intervention in Syria atm (or Libya back then, now I come to think of it). The only people I can think of who are implying that we should are the BBC / liberal tendency, with a "something must be done" inference in every blood-soaked news report. Why those f8ckers can't stick to the "sanctions will work" line they usually use, I'll never know......
Anyone care to bet that Obama does naught but go Golfing and attend Fund Raisers? Well....maybe some hand wringing about intolerance causing hatred and riot by Islamist Fundamentalists.
He cannot be too harsh on Hollywood as it is a source of lots of campaign money!
After all he is so appreciative of the Muslim Call to Prayer...their contribution to American Culture....and their Peace loving ways.
He cannot be too harsh on Hollywood as it is a source of lots of campaign money!
After all he is so appreciative of the Muslim Call to Prayer...their contribution to American Culture....and their Peace loving ways.
Thread Starter
I see an election ebbing away especially given Obama and Hillarys full support for those Islamic militants in Benghazi whom Gadaffi had pegged right.
This has little to do with the Mad Colonel and all to do with the Globalization and interconnectedness of modern life.
A man in one country exercising free speech, which in his country is OK and shows a criticism of Islam (however heavy handed) is used as an excuse to Act Out.
It doesn't help that the gent in question is apparently an American Jew, and that Jews and Israel are a daily sore point for some folks in the Arab Street, specifically, Muslims with an attitude.
For once, the meme "they hate us for our freedom" is applicable.
This was an act of hate, and the hate is directly linked to our freedom of speech.
Response: ought to be lethal and about one thousand dead for each American killed. Send a message: this will not be put up with.
That response might just win the incumbent an election in November.
A man in one country exercising free speech, which in his country is OK and shows a criticism of Islam (however heavy handed) is used as an excuse to Act Out.
It doesn't help that the gent in question is apparently an American Jew, and that Jews and Israel are a daily sore point for some folks in the Arab Street, specifically, Muslims with an attitude.
For once, the meme "they hate us for our freedom" is applicable.
This was an act of hate, and the hate is directly linked to our freedom of speech.
Response: ought to be lethal and about one thousand dead for each American killed. Send a message: this will not be put up with.
That response might just win the incumbent an election in November.
If it wasn't for oil the only thing we'd know about these countries is that goats look worried & walk funny.
An innocent man (& others) who spent most of his life serving the USA but clearly cared about the ME has lost his life, killed by the peoples his country helped free because another bigoted idiot made an inflammatory U Tube video.
And so it goes.
An innocent man (& others) who spent most of his life serving the USA but clearly cared about the ME has lost his life, killed by the peoples his country helped free because another bigoted idiot made an inflammatory U Tube video.
And so it goes.
Response: ought to be lethal and about one thousand dead for each American killed. Send a message: this will not be put up with.
Not A Boffin, certainly agree with your second paragraph, the 'we must do something' brigade should be bound and gagged sat at a corner and more importantly ignored.
As for Saddams refusal to comply with the UN, yes it happened but weapons inspectors were still inside Iraq before Gulf War 2. Remember Dr David Kelly taking a walk in the woods? A interesting man with a long career who dealt with things that both of us hoped we'd never have to face in a 'noddy suit'. Stitched up by politicians if you believe conspiracy theorists after his evidence to the Defence Select Commitee. Do you believe the official reports about his death, I don't for a minute.
Load Toad, the only thing they export is oil and gas and at the moment we need that, we need nuclear and shale gas as a starter and then maybe we can then allow them to slaughter each other without British forces in particular and NATO and other forces being in the middle.
As for Saddams refusal to comply with the UN, yes it happened but weapons inspectors were still inside Iraq before Gulf War 2. Remember Dr David Kelly taking a walk in the woods? A interesting man with a long career who dealt with things that both of us hoped we'd never have to face in a 'noddy suit'. Stitched up by politicians if you believe conspiracy theorists after his evidence to the Defence Select Commitee. Do you believe the official reports about his death, I don't for a minute.
Load Toad, the only thing they export is oil and gas and at the moment we need that, we need nuclear and shale gas as a starter and then maybe we can then allow them to slaughter each other without British forces in particular and NATO and other forces being in the middle.
Quote:
Rubbish. Stop buying products off these places. Have nothing to do with them. They can learn to sort themselves out with out big $ rushing in to sponsor their corruption and imbecility.
In a word............... oil, can you do without?
Rubbish. Stop buying products off these places. Have nothing to do with them. They can learn to sort themselves out with out big $ rushing in to sponsor their corruption and imbecility.
In a word............... oil, can you do without?
As I said....confirmed by the White House.....the bastard is off to Vegas campaigning and raising money after a brief statement at the White House!!!!!!