Future usage of bombing ranges
Thread Starter
Future usage of bombing ranges
As GR4s and Hawks are essentially the only RAF range customers these days but the GR4s and now on their way out and the new Hawks I believe don't carry weapons.
It seems Typhoons are very rare visitors to weapons ranges and you can’t imagine that JSF will be much different.
Currently the RAF has Tain, Donna Nook, Holbeach and Pembrey and these are now very quiet compared to what they once were.
Is it pessimistic to imagine that only one (at best) will survive?
It seems Typhoons are very rare visitors to weapons ranges and you can’t imagine that JSF will be much different.
Currently the RAF has Tain, Donna Nook, Holbeach and Pembrey and these are now very quiet compared to what they once were.
Is it pessimistic to imagine that only one (at best) will survive?
Thread Starter
Helicopters don''t use that many slots (although I remember hearing Donna Nook for one might have gone ages ago if it was not for attracting helis )
Also surely door gunning can be practised on army ranges?
And I assume Lilstock is still open as a door gunnery range - or is just navy only?
Also surely door gunning can be practised on army ranges?
And I assume Lilstock is still open as a door gunnery range - or is just navy only?
Originally Posted by typerated
.....but the GR4s and now on their way out.....
Hold there, old boy, they're not done for yet. Slightly premature writing off according to the news last night (May 2019).
More bang for your buck
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Provided they are kept out of the hands of the environmentalists who seem to think they have a god given right to manage and improve upon nature and end up creating a totally artificial landscape, and keep the public away as well then there will still be some 'natural; areas of countryside left.
When I used to do trials at places like Larkhill, Spadeadam, Orfordness etc. once you moved away from the buildings out onto the ranges it was an absolute haven for wild life.
When I used to do trials at places like Larkhill, Spadeadam, Orfordness etc. once you moved away from the buildings out onto the ranges it was an absolute haven for wild life.
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Also surely door gunning can be practised on army ranges?
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I should imagine they will be used again for the latest poppy crop......... Ohhh you mean UK bombing ranges 
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If you want to hover shoot or conduct fly by serials in very constrained arcs, then army small arms ranges could be used, if templated and approved.
If you want to practise multiple aircraft Op profiles for engagements, you need to use an AWR. The only other place half decent is Kircudbright.
Anywhere else, and you are effectively shooting a canned serial. No room for anything other than the only profile which will keep the weapon in arcs.
Fine for initial ,qualification for a new guy. The yearly currency Gun Control shoot for RW guys should involve a JTAC style check in, ROE and two ship QBO'S and multiple different engagements day and night. Granted, you can practise theory and procedure but it's all about the delivery.
Most people can tell a guy to shoot a BG standard target, the more complex serials require practise! We struggle to get range slots at the best of time, any closures would exacerbate the situation!
If you want to practise multiple aircraft Op profiles for engagements, you need to use an AWR. The only other place half decent is Kircudbright.
Anywhere else, and you are effectively shooting a canned serial. No room for anything other than the only profile which will keep the weapon in arcs.
Fine for initial ,qualification for a new guy. The yearly currency Gun Control shoot for RW guys should involve a JTAC style check in, ROE and two ship QBO'S and multiple different engagements day and night. Granted, you can practise theory and procedure but it's all about the delivery.
Most people can tell a guy to shoot a BG standard target, the more complex serials require practise! We struggle to get range slots at the best of time, any closures would exacerbate the situation!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The air weapons ranges do not belong to LAND. LAND used to have ATE or Army Training Estate. The whole was transferred to Defence Estates and renamed Defence Training Estates in 2006. To be truely tri-service and avoid the accusation that it was a change of name only the RAF ranges were transferred as the Purple Veneer. Reportedly AOC 1 Gp was incandescent when he learnt at the end of January that he was to lose 5 units.
The USAFE are (?) also users of the east coast ranges (ECR) but their usage too is declining.
Of the future, Pembrey can offer beach landing facilities is it is deemed necessary to land C130 on sand. Donna Nook offers some specialist facilties but that role may terminate soon. Donna Nook is probably less useful than Holbeach as Holbeach is less tidal and has more green space however English Heritage is ambivalent on defence use. MOD looks after the land and is probably a better land owner than non-public ownership.
Tain and the land to the north can offer tactical training unavailable in England.
Once Typhoon and JSF are the only kids on the block actual weapons drops will cease. There would remain the possibility of EO training in restricted airspace although Spadeadam is probably better than the ECR. There are some other specialist uses for at least one ECR but not sufficient to justify permanent manning of any of them.
The USAFE are (?) also users of the east coast ranges (ECR) but their usage too is declining.
Of the future, Pembrey can offer beach landing facilities is it is deemed necessary to land C130 on sand. Donna Nook offers some specialist facilties but that role may terminate soon. Donna Nook is probably less useful than Holbeach as Holbeach is less tidal and has more green space however English Heritage is ambivalent on defence use. MOD looks after the land and is probably a better land owner than non-public ownership.
Tain and the land to the north can offer tactical training unavailable in England.
Once Typhoon and JSF are the only kids on the block actual weapons drops will cease. There would remain the possibility of EO training in restricted airspace although Spadeadam is probably better than the ECR. There are some other specialist uses for at least one ECR but not sufficient to justify permanent manning of any of them.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The ranges are academic and too many crews remain wedded to academic training and good scores. The one time I saw some real training was an RAF led BAF flight of F16. They conducted a waggon wheel and delivered a volley of BDU33s at such a frequency that the whol ship target was totally obscured and we were unable to assess later attacks.
We had an air commodore who tried to get the sqns to adopt tactical procedural work with random attack tracks. We had no takers; it was outside their comfort zone./
