C17 Lands at wrong (3600 foot!) runway
Champagne anyone...?
HUD fixation? What are you gibbering about? As VR wisely queried - it is actually see through and focussed to infinity. Having 10 years+ experience on big HUD equipped aircraft I now fly EFIS 737. I find this new 'Instrument fixation' quite unbelievable and TOTALLY inexcusable. What if there is a Cessna at the touchdown. What if the runway is closed/disused/cratered? Don't folk look 'out' any more? 
This has nothing to do with HUDs or 2 man flightdecks and everything to do with slack procedures, poor CRM and general f*ckmongery.
PS. I would advise against travelling on Mr Stephenson's new horseless steam engine, The Rocket. I believe a human would suffocate and die at speeds in excess of 10mph.
This has nothing to do with HUDs or 2 man flightdecks and everything to do with slack procedures, poor CRM and general f*ckmongery.
PS. I would advise against travelling on Mr Stephenson's new horseless steam engine, The Rocket. I believe a human would suffocate and die at speeds in excess of 10mph.
Nosing round the A400M FatLass at F'boro last week, I had a very interesting peep at the low light imagery which can be projected onto the HUD. A bit like the FLIR imagery available as an option on some expensive cars, but much better!
Brilliant aircraft, the FatLass - the RAF crews will love it!
I do hope that the formal occurence report uses precisely those apt words, Stoppers!
Brilliant aircraft, the FatLass - the RAF crews will love it!
This has nothing to do with HUDs or 2 man flightdecks and everything to do with slack procedures, poor CRM and general f*ckmongery.
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I think some of the UK readers would be shocked by the limited hours and general lack of experience and worldly flying knowledge of some of the current generation of US pilots, especially aircraft commanders and even instructors, with 90% of their hours in the desert and very few sorties outside the 'States.
An event such as this is not surprising and will not be the last one.
An event such as this is not surprising and will not be the last one.
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6ft,
To be fair, if the USAF actually kept people in for longer than 2 tours or longer, akin to the UK's Professional Aviator Spine, they wouldnt have the problems they do. Instead, they push their guys reaching an acceptable level of skillsets over to mundane staff tours, 12-18 month irrelevant Out Of Areas and push a culture that unless you get promoted, you are seen as an abject failure.... Fortunately, you have the reserve, would be much better to have reservists embedded into USAF units than having a separate reserve, to "Share the Gen".
Unfortunately, some RAF Sqns are going down the same route. The airlines would find it rather strange to spend over 2 million USD to train someone, to then not bother getting any decent return on them.
To be fair, if the USAF actually kept people in for longer than 2 tours or longer, akin to the UK's Professional Aviator Spine, they wouldnt have the problems they do. Instead, they push their guys reaching an acceptable level of skillsets over to mundane staff tours, 12-18 month irrelevant Out Of Areas and push a culture that unless you get promoted, you are seen as an abject failure.... Fortunately, you have the reserve, would be much better to have reservists embedded into USAF units than having a separate reserve, to "Share the Gen".
Unfortunately, some RAF Sqns are going down the same route. The airlines would find it rather strange to spend over 2 million USD to train someone, to then not bother getting any decent return on them.
I have landed at the wrong airfield before. I was cleared "Chinook on final....cleared to land!"....but was on Lai Khe Tower frequency and landed at Dau Tieng. I tweaked to the situation when I realized where we were parked at the Refuel Point was not next to the runway and was not in the middle of a Rubber Plantation.
In my defense....I would argue as we had arrived Army IFR....in those days and locale meant looking down through the chin bubble following a road. Add in it was from atop a broken undercast cloud layer as the morning fog was breaking up....that allowed us to see portions of the road (think dirt track) at times but never all of it.....and that we had missed a "Y" in the road which sent us off down the wrong track....and I don't feel too bad about it.
Now in a C-17, with a HUD, GPS/INS/Doppler Nav, full digital display, a fully functioning ILS system with Approach control Radar looking at me.....and a destination that has a huge....really huge Runway to look for.....with all sorts of approach lighting, lead in lighting....bright white runway markings.....well....perhaps there is a difference between these guys mistake and mine. If they had the ILS for McDill tuned in....and all the data was being displayed on the HUD and Instrument Displays.....what happened? If one pilot had the ILS tuned ups and displayed...and the other guy was doing a GPS Tactical approach of some kind...even a visual approach....they should have caught the error long before it became a problem.
Very sloppy work....and worthy of a small rebuke at some point I am sure.
In my defense....I would argue as we had arrived Army IFR....in those days and locale meant looking down through the chin bubble following a road. Add in it was from atop a broken undercast cloud layer as the morning fog was breaking up....that allowed us to see portions of the road (think dirt track) at times but never all of it.....and that we had missed a "Y" in the road which sent us off down the wrong track....and I don't feel too bad about it.
Now in a C-17, with a HUD, GPS/INS/Doppler Nav, full digital display, a fully functioning ILS system with Approach control Radar looking at me.....and a destination that has a huge....really huge Runway to look for.....with all sorts of approach lighting, lead in lighting....bright white runway markings.....well....perhaps there is a difference between these guys mistake and mine. If they had the ILS for McDill tuned in....and all the data was being displayed on the HUD and Instrument Displays.....what happened? If one pilot had the ILS tuned ups and displayed...and the other guy was doing a GPS Tactical approach of some kind...even a visual approach....they should have caught the error long before it became a problem.
Very sloppy work....and worthy of a small rebuke at some point I am sure.
There was one famous continental airline that made an approach and landing at the wrong airfield in Germany. The cabin staff didn't tell the cockpit even though they knew because the passengers had told them. The passengers knew because the seat back map diplays were showing that they were going to the wrong place.
#70:
I think his point was that the Reserve crews are the experienced ones and hence less likely to make screw-ups like this.
#68:
My correction in bold!
Quote:
Fortunately, you have the reserve...
I may have missed it, but has it been determined this was NOT a Reserve crew?
Fortunately, you have the reserve...
I may have missed it, but has it been determined this was NOT a Reserve crew?
#68:
Unfortunately, most RAF Sqns are going down the same route.
Last edited by Easy Street; 23rd Jul 2012 at 20:36.
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I think some of the UK readers would be shocked by the limited hours and general lack of experience and worldly flying knowledge of some of the current generation of US pilots, especially aircraft commanders and even instructors, with 90% of their hours in the desert and very few sorties outside the 'States.
An event such as this is not surprising and will not be the last one.
An event such as this is not surprising and will not be the last one.
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Apparently he had a VVIP on board......
I'm sure it would have been an uncomfortable situation for the crew to let their key passenger know where they landed.
Alconbury et Wyton
Wonder if there were any incidents for Wyton and Alconbury in the days when the air side of Alconbury was active, as both runways practically run in tandem.
I remember as a cadet visiting Wyton circa, 1991, there was a USAF controller or two in Wytons hub.
I remember as a cadet visiting Wyton circa, 1991, there was a USAF controller or two in Wytons hub.
Didn't RAF and RN types used to get befuddled with Ford and Tangmere in the fifties? I was at Gatwick one evening when a B.I.A. aircraft landed on the taxiway instead of the runway. I'm fairly sure that something was put or almost was put down at Wellesbourne instead of Gaydon in the late fifties/early sixties.
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I've only seen the technique of filing to one place and landing at another used by one organization.
I don't know if this is a myth or fact.
I was told that a member of the Omani Royal Family was en route London to Oman on a charter flight and the pilot landed at Amman. Seems he mis-heard the destination
I was told that a member of the Omani Royal Family was en route London to Oman on a charter flight and the pilot landed at Amman. Seems he mis-heard the destination
