National Anthems
Thread Starter
National Anthems
Nothing at all to do with Military Aviation, but a question some of you folks may care to answer.
Why, when the ENGLISH Football, and Rugby, teams play do they sing God Save the Queen, the national anthem of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? And. in a similar vein, why do the fans of England predominantly fly the Union Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and not the very pretty and very acceptable English national flag of Cross of St George?
Each of the other home countries fly their own official national flags and sing their own national anthems (unofficial apart from the Republic of Ireland).
Why don't English fans do the same? Are they not proud to be English? The Cross of St George is the official National Flag, and I'd nominate Hearts of Oak as a stirring and quintessentially English song that would serve admirably as an English National Anthem.
(Blue touchpaper lit, retiring to listen to England v Ukraine. Hope England win).
Why, when the ENGLISH Football, and Rugby, teams play do they sing God Save the Queen, the national anthem of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? And. in a similar vein, why do the fans of England predominantly fly the Union Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and not the very pretty and very acceptable English national flag of Cross of St George?
Each of the other home countries fly their own official national flags and sing their own national anthems (unofficial apart from the Republic of Ireland).
Why don't English fans do the same? Are they not proud to be English? The Cross of St George is the official National Flag, and I'd nominate Hearts of Oak as a stirring and quintessentially English song that would serve admirably as an English National Anthem.
(Blue touchpaper lit, retiring to listen to England v Ukraine. Hope England win).
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
AL, now that the Jubilee is so yesterday you can't buy a Union flag but there are England flags (that is the white one with a red cross and emblazoned with the word England) are everywhere.
OTOH it is difficult to buy a St George's flag either.
Do Scots fly a flag in their cars to warn that thedriver is an idiot or two flags to indicate severe idiocy
OTOH it is difficult to buy a St George's flag either.
Do Scots fly a flag in their cars to warn that thedriver is an idiot or two flags to indicate severe idiocy
There are a number of reasons, but the fact the "National Anthem" is actually a rant against Scots explains part of it.
The Scots have their own semi-official anthem "Flower of Scotland", but you'd struggle to find many who actually know who (not what) the "Flower" refers to. Similarly, I'd wager a significant proportion of Union Jacks flying in England today are actually upside down! That's a sign of distress, which is somehow appropriate.
The Scots have their own semi-official anthem "Flower of Scotland", but you'd struggle to find many who actually know who (not what) the "Flower" refers to. Similarly, I'd wager a significant proportion of Union Jacks flying in England today are actually upside down! That's a sign of distress, which is somehow appropriate.
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Incidentally, Heart of Oak was written c1759, so I'd suggest that it's a British song - only cause I like it!
You could always have 'Jerusalem' if that's not too un-PC!
Steady. Boys, steady!
Duncs
Oh, and good luck England.
You could always have 'Jerusalem' if that's not too un-PC!
Steady. Boys, steady!
Duncs
Oh, and good luck England.
dervish,
AFAIK, "Rebellious Scots to crush" was only briefly in the anthem.
Dunno about the hoi polloi, but I've always understood who the 'flower' were.
Re the Union flag, most will come attached to their little stick so no prob - although, Mrs Bas managed to put one upside down at our door.
When the fussy old sod (that'll be Bas) mentioned this and was told that no one will notice, he replied that yes, his airline and mil acquaintances would!
500N - That's it! I'm reporting that post!!!!
AFAIK, "Rebellious Scots to crush" was only briefly in the anthem.
Dunno about the hoi polloi, but I've always understood who the 'flower' were.
Re the Union flag, most will come attached to their little stick so no prob - although, Mrs Bas managed to put one upside down at our door.
When the fussy old sod (that'll be Bas) mentioned this and was told that no one will notice, he replied that yes, his airline and mil acquaintances would!
500N - That's it! I'm reporting that post!!!!
Last edited by Basil; 19th Jun 2012 at 20:07.
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Bas
I would have a guess that a Union Jack flown upside down by itself - with no other flags for reference - is unlikely to be noticed by the majority of people as most wouldn't know.
Parade ground stuff ups excepted !!!
Bas - report it as much as you like, I will give my best regimental one fingered salute !!!
I would have a guess that a Union Jack flown upside down by itself - with no other flags for reference - is unlikely to be noticed by the majority of people as most wouldn't know.
Parade ground stuff ups excepted !!!
Bas - report it as much as you like, I will give my best regimental one fingered salute !!!
Last edited by 500N; 19th Jun 2012 at 20:16.
Thread Starter
Billynospares, no it doesn't make you racist, it makes you proud to be English, and that's precisely my point. What's wrong with being proud to be English?
Duncs, I take your point about Hearts of Oak. Since "Great Britain" was formed by the Act of 1707 ratifying the union of England and Scotland (Clause 1) then Hearts of Oak is indeed a song from Great Britain. I wouldn't have a problem with Jerusalem, or any other anthem an England team cares to belt out, so long as it was an ENGLISH national anthem
Racedo, correct and apologies, although the situation is a little more nebulous when it comes to Rugby and the six nations. Whereas the football teams are R of I and Northern Ireland, the Rugby team is called Ireland and draws from both the North and South. Thus, they sing both "The Soldier's Song" (anthem of R of I) ad "Ireland, Ireland", a specially written song to celebrate the union of the North and South in one team.
Duncs, I take your point about Hearts of Oak. Since "Great Britain" was formed by the Act of 1707 ratifying the union of England and Scotland (Clause 1) then Hearts of Oak is indeed a song from Great Britain. I wouldn't have a problem with Jerusalem, or any other anthem an England team cares to belt out, so long as it was an ENGLISH national anthem
Racedo, correct and apologies, although the situation is a little more nebulous when it comes to Rugby and the six nations. Whereas the football teams are R of I and Northern Ireland, the Rugby team is called Ireland and draws from both the North and South. Thus, they sing both "The Soldier's Song" (anthem of R of I) ad "Ireland, Ireland", a specially written song to celebrate the union of the North and South in one team.
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why do the fans of England predominantly fly the Union Flag
Last edited by maliyahsdad2; 19th Jun 2012 at 20:50.
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If a union flag is on a "stick" then it can be viewed from both sides as it flutters. Should you view it from the "wrong" side then it will appear to be upside down when it is not. Obviously, the opposite applies to an upside-down flag viewed from the other side.
Several RAF aircraft have a union flag on their tails. If one views the starboard side flag then it will also appear to be upside down...
Several RAF aircraft have a union flag on their tails. If one views the starboard side flag then it will also appear to be upside down...
Yes I was puzzled about that maliyah'sdad- I agree with the OP as regards the singing of the (British) national anthem, but it seems to me that the English flag has been pretty ubiquitous, at least since 1998 or whenever it was when "football came home" and we hosted the European Championship. That was the first time I saw England flags fluttering from cars.
I think that if alwayslookingup looked straight ahead instead of up he might find he has been imagining all those Union Jacks!
Definitely time England had a suitable anthem, and the National anthem could be kept for non-sporting occasions
I think that if alwayslookingup looked straight ahead instead of up he might find he has been imagining all those Union Jacks!
Definitely time England had a suitable anthem, and the National anthem could be kept for non-sporting occasions
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Have a look at these
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Multiple options !!!
Workers forced to sleep in open at Jubilee: reports
Why, when the ENGLISH Football, and Rugby, teams play do they sing God Save the Queen, the national anthem of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
