Freddie Johnson DFC
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Freddie Johnson DFC
Freddie Johnson, 91, denied a place at Bomber Commander memorial which he helped raise funds for | Mail Online
6500 'tickets' with only 7 guys that were actually there attending, and they refuse to give him one ticket............ WTF.
6500 'tickets' with only 7 guys that were actually there attending, and they refuse to give him one ticket............ WTF.
First of all, reading the article I think the 7 referred to are those featured on the memorial - not the number of ex Bomber Command aircrew attending.
Secondly if this was in other paper then the Mail I would be first on the outrage bus, in fact I'd probably be driving it - but the Mail has plenty of form in getting its facts wrong in stories like this.
That all said, it's still a poor show that they can't fit this guy in. I'm pretty sure someone could be "persuaded" to give up their place in the circumstances. Either that or can't some jobsworth be persuaded that with 6500 attending, one more isnt going to make a damn bit of difference?
Secondly if this was in other paper then the Mail I would be first on the outrage bus, in fact I'd probably be driving it - but the Mail has plenty of form in getting its facts wrong in stories like this.
That all said, it's still a poor show that they can't fit this guy in. I'm pretty sure someone could be "persuaded" to give up their place in the circumstances. Either that or can't some jobsworth be persuaded that with 6500 attending, one more isnt going to make a damn bit of difference?
Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 10th Jun 2012 at 22:54.
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Seems a case of not enough space for everyone who wants to attend.
and
They found out too late that veterans had to apply for tickets, like anyone else wanting to attend.
A spokesman said: 'The problem is we have been absolutely overwhelmed by demand for tickets. We have a licence limiting us to 6,500 guests which we cannot exceed, and have prioritised two groups – people who lost relatives such as husbands and fathers, and veterans who flew in the planes.
'But we still probably have at least 1,000 people who would like to attend but cannot come. Other events will be staged at the memorial later in the year and we would hope that people who cannot get a ticket this time will be able to attend one of those functions.'
'But we still probably have at least 1,000 people who would like to attend but cannot come. Other events will be staged at the memorial later in the year and we would hope that people who cannot get a ticket this time will be able to attend one of those functions.'
I'm with TTN on this - this does smack of the mail trying to whip up outrage and disgust as only they can.
If the event is, as they claim to be, prioritising veterans and families then this seems to just be a case of unfortunate misunderstanding. Having said that - the Aircrew Association must have a list of all surviving members of Bomber Command (there, sadly, can't be that many left) and one would have thought that it would take little effort to ensure that they all got invited first.
Here's hoping that someone does the decent thing and gives the Gentleman a seat.
OH
If the event is, as they claim to be, prioritising veterans and families then this seems to just be a case of unfortunate misunderstanding. Having said that - the Aircrew Association must have a list of all surviving members of Bomber Command (there, sadly, can't be that many left) and one would have thought that it would take little effort to ensure that they all got invited first.
Here's hoping that someone does the decent thing and gives the Gentleman a seat.
OH
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If this is true - it's the Daily Fail, afterall - then it is a disgrace. 
'Machine Gun' Freddie is an absolute star! As an honorary member of Yorkshire Universities Air Squadron, I'm sure that they can find him a place in their bus.
Duncs
'Machine Gun' Freddie is an absolute star! As an honorary member of Yorkshire Universities Air Squadron, I'm sure that they can find him a place in their bus.Duncs
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No fan of the Daily Fail but I am glad they are covering this story. It was run in the York Press last week so now it's gone national hopefully pressure will build and he will be able to attend.
It'd have been nice if his local RAFA (he is a member) could have pre-empted his desire to attend, they do have plenty of less decorated (although not necessarily less important, some of them) members attending.
It'd have been nice if his local RAFA (he is a member) could have pre-empted his desire to attend, they do have plenty of less decorated (although not necessarily less important, some of them) members attending.
Last edited by fabs; 11th Jun 2012 at 09:31.
We have a thing called "Honor Flight"....where some of the airlines have teamed up with community groups to transport WWII Veterans to Washington, DC so they can visit the WWII Memorial. Granted there are far more of these Men and Women than for Bomber Command alone....and it is not just a single celebration....but we honor those who put so much on the line for us during that War.
I know for sure....If I were the Son or Grand Son of a Man who died in action....and I had a ticket tot he event....I would very gladly give it up for someone like Johnson to attend the function. I have a dear friend who is also 91....an American who went north and joined the RCAF to fly. He wound up flying Lanc's out of Teeside for Bomber Command.
I would pay his way over if he was able to travel.....it is right we should do everything we can to tell these folks they are not forgotten or over looked....after all it is they who flew the missions. They took the same risks but were fortunate enough to survive. Should such celebrations not be all about them as well as those who died while serving with the Men like Johnson?
I know for sure....If I were the Son or Grand Son of a Man who died in action....and I had a ticket tot he event....I would very gladly give it up for someone like Johnson to attend the function. I have a dear friend who is also 91....an American who went north and joined the RCAF to fly. He wound up flying Lanc's out of Teeside for Bomber Command.
I would pay his way over if he was able to travel.....it is right we should do everything we can to tell these folks they are not forgotten or over looked....after all it is they who flew the missions. They took the same risks but were fortunate enough to survive. Should such celebrations not be all about them as well as those who died while serving with the Men like Johnson?
Last edited by SASless; 11th Jun 2012 at 11:44.
As they have (quite rightly) "prioritised two groups, people who lost relatives such as husbands and fathers, and veterans who flew in the planes..." then someone NOT of those groups should be taken off the guest list to ensure that these two groups DO have the necessary seats (hopefully near the front).
Surely there should have been much better liaison between RAF/MoD/RAFA/RBL to ensure that all known BC aircrew were invited (whether through failing health they might not be able to accept is another thing) but they should have had an INVITE, and the necessary arrangements to get them there made.
Who are these other guests in the 6,500? Do they ALL deserve to be there or are they just getting first dibs at the expense of those who SHOULD be there?
Shades of the Olympic torch bearers being divvied up amongst big business and only after them do the "ordinary" people get a chance....
Surely there should have been much better liaison between RAF/MoD/RAFA/RBL to ensure that all known BC aircrew were invited (whether through failing health they might not be able to accept is another thing) but they should have had an INVITE, and the necessary arrangements to get them there made.
Who are these other guests in the 6,500? Do they ALL deserve to be there or are they just getting first dibs at the expense of those who SHOULD be there?
Shades of the Olympic torch bearers being divvied up amongst big business and only after them do the "ordinary" people get a chance....
Gentleman Aviator
Heard the other day from an "impeccable source" that 18 Royals would be attending - I'd be a bit pushed to think of that many I'd want there.......
Last edited by teeteringhead; 11th Jun 2012 at 12:24.
I rarely contribute to these debates these days, but thought some perspective might help.
The memorial has been a truly incredible and time-consuming project and the Bomber Command Association (normal office staff, a 90 ‘ish-year-old veteran and a truly fabulous part-time administrator) has been working flat out for many years to ensure it has been funded and built. The Mail accuses "bureaucrats" of denying Freddie a place at the unveiling.
Having had some very minor involvement with the whole process, I can assure you that there are no "bureaucrats" involved - just some incredibly hard working & dedicated people and a couple of fantastic holding guys giving an awful lot more time than they should have to.
The Association has been overwhelmed by the support for the memorial and by subsequent requests for tickets - there simply isn't enough space for everyone.
Should someone be dumped out in favour of Freddie? Possibly, but who - the daughters of a VC who wanted tickets? The wife of a DFC? The carer? It could be done, but be assured that there will be many more well-deserving people like Freddie who will come next.
The Bomber Command Association is organising the event (not the RAF Association) - they wrote to every member of their association to let them know about the process and the simple fact is that anyone (member or not) could apply for tickets and they all went into a ballot. Many were disappointed. Needless to say, many veterans (Freddie included if I understand correctly) are not members of the association so there was clearly no way of contacting every single surviving veteran.
I have spent the last few months interviewing surviving veterans about their experiences and am in awe of their courage, sacrifice and dedication. I wish every single one could be at the unveiling. But it’s impossible.
The memorial has been a truly incredible and time-consuming project and the Bomber Command Association (normal office staff, a 90 ‘ish-year-old veteran and a truly fabulous part-time administrator) has been working flat out for many years to ensure it has been funded and built. The Mail accuses "bureaucrats" of denying Freddie a place at the unveiling.
Having had some very minor involvement with the whole process, I can assure you that there are no "bureaucrats" involved - just some incredibly hard working & dedicated people and a couple of fantastic holding guys giving an awful lot more time than they should have to.
The Association has been overwhelmed by the support for the memorial and by subsequent requests for tickets - there simply isn't enough space for everyone.
Should someone be dumped out in favour of Freddie? Possibly, but who - the daughters of a VC who wanted tickets? The wife of a DFC? The carer? It could be done, but be assured that there will be many more well-deserving people like Freddie who will come next.
The Bomber Command Association is organising the event (not the RAF Association) - they wrote to every member of their association to let them know about the process and the simple fact is that anyone (member or not) could apply for tickets and they all went into a ballot. Many were disappointed. Needless to say, many veterans (Freddie included if I understand correctly) are not members of the association so there was clearly no way of contacting every single surviving veteran.
I have spent the last few months interviewing surviving veterans about their experiences and am in awe of their courage, sacrifice and dedication. I wish every single one could be at the unveiling. But it’s impossible.
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Originally Posted by John Nichol
Should someone be dumped out in favour of Freddie? Possibly, but who - the daughters of a VC who wanted tickets? The wife of a DFC? The carer? It could be done, but be assured that there will be many more well-deserving people like Freddie who will come next.
Surviving aircrew, surviving ground staff, surviving back room staff, plus of course their immediate surviving next of kin along with carers or military escorts and then perhaps...
I laugh when folks IMMEDIATELY jump to the conclusion that this is a National newspaper making a story out of a non story, but surely the reality is a local newspaper quite rightly run with this story and it appears they got nowhere. Three cheers for the National newspaper for stepping in and how sad that organisers cannot see the injustice of not ensuring that ALL surviving Bomber Command aircrew were invited! Let's instead blame an elderly an perhaps infirm gentleman for not carrying out the correct procedures.
Gone are the days when anyone has the courage to say, "My bad, my mistake, let's lay on the transport and make sure this man gets a front row seat".
Instead we appear to be getting some sort of wishy,washy excuse... get the man there and accept a mistake was made..
Apologies for the rant
Best wishes to some VERY brave men
John
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I wish every single one could be at the unveiling. But it’s impossible
Given the cost of the project and monies raised, polical attention, media interest, Robin's huge efforts, etc, etc, how on earth has the whole management thing been reliant on, if you intimate correctly, a shoestring (albeit applaudably dedicated) staffing arrangement.
there simply isn't enough space for everyone.
there was clearly no way of contacting every single surviving veteran.
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Can't agree. Given the lead time, and assuming there's a will, there should certainly have been a way.
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Not at all a similar comparison, especially with the involved numbers; and I'm not suggesting it should have been a HMG effort.
Last edited by jindabyne; 11th Jun 2012 at 19:08.
diginagain According to an update on Arrse, a news channel is carrying reports that Freddie and his wife will now be accomodated.
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I read elsewhere that BCA input - and possibly that from the local MP - helped Freddie and his wife get well deserved tickets to the Memorail unveilling.
Result!
Duncs
Result!
Duncs
