RAAF Mirage 3 losses
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RAAF Mirage 3 losses
Was up at Fightertown with Little Tartare looking at the jets the other day.
What struck me about the Mirage 3 (beautiful looking jet) was what appeared to be the large number of fatal crashes when introduced into RAAF service.
Almost one a year, in some cases two a year.
Have searched the interweb as to why - but not much luck yet.
I wondered if there were any common factors?
Certainly the cockpit feels very cramped - slightly more so than other fast-jet ones I've been in... I'd hate to have to eject from that.
Can any ex-Mirage pilots shed any light?
What struck me about the Mirage 3 (beautiful looking jet) was what appeared to be the large number of fatal crashes when introduced into RAAF service.
Almost one a year, in some cases two a year.
Have searched the interweb as to why - but not much luck yet.
I wondered if there were any common factors?
Certainly the cockpit feels very cramped - slightly more so than other fast-jet ones I've been in... I'd hate to have to eject from that.
Can any ex-Mirage pilots shed any light?
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almost every 50's & 60's fast jet had what would now be considered unacceptable loss rates
In 1965-73 the US lost to ACCIDENTS only in S E Asia
F-4 Phantom 62 aircraft
F-105 63
F-100 45
Thread Military Aircraft Accident Statistics [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums has some horror stories about the Harrier
1975-93 the USAF had 204 F-16A "Class A" Accidents
Quote:- Formation position, phase of flight and primary cause of the mishap indicate that maneuvering, cruise and low-level phases account for the majority of the mishaps (71%),
air-to-air engagements associated with a higher proportion of pilot error (71%) than was air-to-ground (49%).
Engine failure was the number one cause of mishaps (35%),
collision with the ground the next most frequent (24%).
Pilot error was determined as causative in 55% of all the mishaps.
Pilot error was often associated with other non-pilot related causes. Channelized attention, loss of situational awareness, and spatial disorientation accounted for approximately 30% of the total pilot error causes found. Pilot demographics, flight hour/sortie profiles, and aircrew injuries are also listed.
Fatalities occurred in 27% of the mishaps, with 97% of those involving pilot errors.
------------------------------------
The Indian AF is currently writing off a plane a month
according to Wikipedia :-
F-104 Starfighter Some operators lost a large proportion of their aircraft through accidents, although the accident rate varied widely depending on the user and operating conditions; the Luftwaffe lost about 30% of aircraft in accidents over its operating career, and Canada lost over 50% of its F-104s.
The Spanish Air Force, however, lost none.
The Class A mishap rate (write off) of the F-104 in USAF service was 26.7 accidents per 100,000 flight hours as of June 1977,(30.63 through the end of 2007]), the highest accident rate of any USAF Century Series fighter. By comparison, the rate of the Convair F-102 Delta Dagger was 14.2/100,000 (13.69 through 2007), and the mishap rate for the North American F-100 Super Sabre was 16.25 accidents per 100,000 flight hours.
In 1965-73 the US lost to ACCIDENTS only in S E Asia
F-4 Phantom 62 aircraft
F-105 63
F-100 45
Thread Military Aircraft Accident Statistics [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums has some horror stories about the Harrier
1975-93 the USAF had 204 F-16A "Class A" Accidents
Quote:- Formation position, phase of flight and primary cause of the mishap indicate that maneuvering, cruise and low-level phases account for the majority of the mishaps (71%),
air-to-air engagements associated with a higher proportion of pilot error (71%) than was air-to-ground (49%).
Engine failure was the number one cause of mishaps (35%),
collision with the ground the next most frequent (24%).
Pilot error was determined as causative in 55% of all the mishaps.
Pilot error was often associated with other non-pilot related causes. Channelized attention, loss of situational awareness, and spatial disorientation accounted for approximately 30% of the total pilot error causes found. Pilot demographics, flight hour/sortie profiles, and aircrew injuries are also listed.
Fatalities occurred in 27% of the mishaps, with 97% of those involving pilot errors.
------------------------------------
The Indian AF is currently writing off a plane a month
according to Wikipedia :-
F-104 Starfighter Some operators lost a large proportion of their aircraft through accidents, although the accident rate varied widely depending on the user and operating conditions; the Luftwaffe lost about 30% of aircraft in accidents over its operating career, and Canada lost over 50% of its F-104s.
The Spanish Air Force, however, lost none.
The Class A mishap rate (write off) of the F-104 in USAF service was 26.7 accidents per 100,000 flight hours as of June 1977,(30.63 through the end of 2007]), the highest accident rate of any USAF Century Series fighter. By comparison, the rate of the Convair F-102 Delta Dagger was 14.2/100,000 (13.69 through 2007), and the mishap rate for the North American F-100 Super Sabre was 16.25 accidents per 100,000 flight hours.
Champagne anyone...?
OK465 - that wouldn't be WZ would it by any chance?
My father did an exchange to W'Town back in the 70s as a Medical Officer. I remember him bring involved in a couple Mirage III crash investigations.....
My father did an exchange to W'Town back in the 70s as a Medical Officer. I remember him bring involved in a couple Mirage III crash investigations.....
Drain Bamaged
The Canadians CF-104 had the highest flying time, close to 6000hrs per airframe versus something like 2000 for the Lufwaffe.
Anyway, back to the Mirage III.
StopStart:
Yes that would be WZ.
Semi-famous picture of him & his WSO standing by the tail (what was left of it) of his F-4E.
I took him on his T-37 student cross country way back when and flew against him a few times in a couple of the aircraft Heathrow Harry mentions, when WZ was flying Reserve F-16's.
RAAF fighter exchange was one of the all-time good deals. Enjoyed hearing about his exploits in the Mirage...and on the ground.
Yes that would be WZ.
Semi-famous picture of him & his WSO standing by the tail (what was left of it) of his F-4E.
I took him on his T-37 student cross country way back when and flew against him a few times in a couple of the aircraft Heathrow Harry mentions, when WZ was flying Reserve F-16's.
RAAF fighter exchange was one of the all-time good deals. Enjoyed hearing about his exploits in the Mirage...and on the ground.
I was talking with a young USMC F-18 pilot at the Reno Air Races a couple of years ago, he was looking forward to his exchange posting to fly with the RAAF, said it was the best ("a dream") posting for a US F-18 pilot.
I still remember that RAAF Mirage losses in the late 1960s and early 1970s seemed to be fairly common, not all were related to problems with the aircraft.
cheers,
-John
I still remember that RAAF Mirage losses in the late 1960s and early 1970s seemed to be fairly common, not all were related to problems with the aircraft.
cheers,
-John
Champagne anyone...?
Nice one - he gave me the model of his F4E that his crew chief (I think) had made for him when I was an awe struck 8 yr old back in 1977! Great guy - last caught up with him a couple of years ago when I was passing through Hill AFB.
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The Scimitar in RN service lost close to 50% of those built. There wasnt even a war on.
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When I was in ANZUK 1974-76, one of the many other nationals of my acquaintance was a RN guy who told me he was the only survivor of his wings course, all peacetime flying casualties.
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RAN lost nearly 50% of their A-4's in accidents...
A mate went in off Melbourne's bow in a A4 after a cold cat launch and waited until Melbourne steamed over him before exiting the cockpit (from about 90' under, I'm told). He said afterwards that as he waited to pop the canopy and get himself out, he kept saying to himself: "Thank God it's not the 'Enterprise'."
Back to Mirages, there's at least one Oz ex Mirage driver still alive and well (JK) who stepped out of a Miracle twice, in JK's case, both times into the sea - and not a balmy flat (nor warm) sea either.
Hmmm have you seen the film of the sad demise of Cmd Russell as he went over the side but was unable to get the canopy open, the film is on the Pathe site, I won't post the link because it shows the poor guy dying... The press were there to film the arrival of the first Scimitar on the Carrier.... I couldn't believe it had actually been shown on newsreels at the time.... Tragic loss.
A mate went in off Melbourne's bow in a A4 after a cold cat launch and waited until Melbourne steamed over him before exiting the cockpit (from about 90' under, I'm told). He said afterwards that as he waited to pop the canopy and get himself out, he kept saying to himself: "Thank God it's not the 'Enterprise'."
Seriously, aircraft reliability and safety has come leaps and bounds since the days of the Mirage. Compare the records of Wessex or even Seaking to Seahawk.
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I wonder if the fact the Helicopter was overhead prevented his use of the seat.
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Then there was the knuck who stepped out on departure from, I believe, a departure from YPDN to the east after a flame-out. The jet stabilised after the pilto ad seat left and dead-sticked itself nicely into a mudflat. Last time I was in DN, the jet was still in the hangar.