The Tank Will Never Replace the Horse!
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The Tank Will Never Replace the Horse!
Ah.....the WAH-64 Apache gets rolled out at westlands in a blaze of glory and er...gets rolled back in again. Doesn't matter anyway as there may not be too many people around to fly it! You see, I want to fly it - I really do! Many ppl don't because it'll be too much time in the simulator they say (safest place to be), but me - I'd love to have a go but I probably won't because alas I am ashamed to say that as an officer, JCSC and a shiny-@rse job beckons. And not even a desk job related to aviation either - probably SO3 G4 cake and @rse in Hohne and why?
Why?
I'll tell you bloody well why! Because the AAC, despite having a revolution in equipment, are sticking to the same career profile they had 30 years ago - as proved by MCM Div's official policy - "Tank officers don't stay on Tanks forever!" Oh yeh I forgot - when our great leaders learned to fly it was a 4 month course and they only had to do day vmc.
People can't keep current now - It will be sad to see them try with the apache in service. And what fun it'll be when the OC Sqn arrives after 4 years in the MOD to be the least experienced guy in the sqn!
For you RAF chaps out there get this - for an officer to go QHI in the AAC is generally considered a career foul!
The situation is this: a new officer in the AAC is usually a graduate so he's 21 going into Sandhurst, 22 coming out, 23and a half finishing his pilots course - 24 finishing AH-64 conversion (if he's lucky) Does 1 tour, goes JCSC at 27 and is consigned to shiny-@rse city for maybe 6 years - then if he's a real flyer, they might send him back to a squadron, but only as the OC - now you fast jet boys - would you like your sqn boss leading you into battle with 3 years experience?
DAAVN - wake up and smell the coffee would you? there's a good chap!
The bottom line is this - we have a revolutionary piece of kit. Its time we had a revolution in thinking. Some officers are happy to go up the chain of command - some aren't. The NCOs are our Spec aircrew they cry and they are right - a more professional bunch of people I have yet to meet - they hold the bloody corps together - but If DAAVN want officers to fly this thing (and they do) then the officers have to be specialists as well - there is no room for the gifted amateur any longer. Not when the QHIs are coming back from america saying that there is more to forget on the apache than you've ever learned on any other aircraft.
I have a glimmer of optimism. But the ppl in command should ask themselves: "just why do we lose so many captains?"
...could it be that being a salesman in civvy street is more interesting than flying? or is it just more interesting (and better paid) than being an adjutant?
I think we should be told.
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Christopher Robin
[This message has been edited by ChristopherRobin (edited 19 March 2000).]
[This message has been edited by ChristopherRobin (edited 19 March 2000).]
Why?
I'll tell you bloody well why! Because the AAC, despite having a revolution in equipment, are sticking to the same career profile they had 30 years ago - as proved by MCM Div's official policy - "Tank officers don't stay on Tanks forever!" Oh yeh I forgot - when our great leaders learned to fly it was a 4 month course and they only had to do day vmc.
People can't keep current now - It will be sad to see them try with the apache in service. And what fun it'll be when the OC Sqn arrives after 4 years in the MOD to be the least experienced guy in the sqn!
For you RAF chaps out there get this - for an officer to go QHI in the AAC is generally considered a career foul!
The situation is this: a new officer in the AAC is usually a graduate so he's 21 going into Sandhurst, 22 coming out, 23and a half finishing his pilots course - 24 finishing AH-64 conversion (if he's lucky) Does 1 tour, goes JCSC at 27 and is consigned to shiny-@rse city for maybe 6 years - then if he's a real flyer, they might send him back to a squadron, but only as the OC - now you fast jet boys - would you like your sqn boss leading you into battle with 3 years experience?
DAAVN - wake up and smell the coffee would you? there's a good chap!
The bottom line is this - we have a revolutionary piece of kit. Its time we had a revolution in thinking. Some officers are happy to go up the chain of command - some aren't. The NCOs are our Spec aircrew they cry and they are right - a more professional bunch of people I have yet to meet - they hold the bloody corps together - but If DAAVN want officers to fly this thing (and they do) then the officers have to be specialists as well - there is no room for the gifted amateur any longer. Not when the QHIs are coming back from america saying that there is more to forget on the apache than you've ever learned on any other aircraft.
I have a glimmer of optimism. But the ppl in command should ask themselves: "just why do we lose so many captains?"
...could it be that being a salesman in civvy street is more interesting than flying? or is it just more interesting (and better paid) than being an adjutant?
I think we should be told.
------------------
Christopher Robin
[This message has been edited by ChristopherRobin (edited 19 March 2000).]
[This message has been edited by ChristopherRobin (edited 19 March 2000).]
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Hoorah and Hussar! at last somebody else that believes Daavn have their memories clouded by a rosey glow of the old days of Air Troops. If they do actually get a whiff of this coffee are they going to take a look at how they are supposedly going to man this new "tank" when at present sqn aircrew spend more time on DFS's, ground handling, A/C washes and daily serviceing of their own flying kit,whilst vainly hopeing that an aircraft might be brought on line if the Tech's finish PT, Drill and their Drugs and Alchol ITD before Naafi break which means we should be ready for a ground run in an hour!!
One regiment is facing the prospect of allowing aircrew to go deliberate uncurrent to keep a core current, those that go uncurrent then face the prospect of backfilling shortages on the groundcrew roll.
Of course the Apache looks after itself so we wont need the extra grouncrews that are supposed to be on demand!
The QHI's that have been trained on the AH64-D have had the luxury of flying it in a training enviroment, how would they cope operating it as NCO aircrew in a field regiment without the support required from the rest of the "departments" to keep it in the air doing its job! and too busy pushing it in and out of hangers to remember what it does.
When the Aircrew and aircraft are not seen as a distraction to the SSM's agenda maybe we'll end up with the professional aviation organisation that people aspired to fly for.
Who was it said "Give us the tools and we'll do the job"?
[This message has been edited by Pep Tilbud (edited 20 March 2000).]
One regiment is facing the prospect of allowing aircrew to go deliberate uncurrent to keep a core current, those that go uncurrent then face the prospect of backfilling shortages on the groundcrew roll.
Of course the Apache looks after itself so we wont need the extra grouncrews that are supposed to be on demand!
The QHI's that have been trained on the AH64-D have had the luxury of flying it in a training enviroment, how would they cope operating it as NCO aircrew in a field regiment without the support required from the rest of the "departments" to keep it in the air doing its job! and too busy pushing it in and out of hangers to remember what it does.
When the Aircrew and aircraft are not seen as a distraction to the SSM's agenda maybe we'll end up with the professional aviation organisation that people aspired to fly for.
Who was it said "Give us the tools and we'll do the job"?
[This message has been edited by Pep Tilbud (edited 20 March 2000).]
Guest
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Dear CR there isn't alot that could follow that. I do however feel for the junior officer's who will be made to succeed in the role of flight commander & CPG(not that sandhurst will prepare them for the job in hand). The young Capt's will (if arrogance doesn't get in the way) learn from the SNCO pilots.
The thing is that if the Army can't make the Apache work(the REME & RLC have alot to do in this),then it is "good night" for the AAC and purple will be the colour of our hats.
WWD!
[This message has been edited by A/Tpr Cooper (edited 23 March 2000).]
The thing is that if the Army can't make the Apache work(the REME & RLC have alot to do in this),then it is "good night" for the AAC and purple will be the colour of our hats.
WWD!
[This message has been edited by A/Tpr Cooper (edited 23 March 2000).]
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Well done that man/woman!
A good subject choice for ripping into.
Also a fine way to start the next financial year off for the money spinners in JHC; maybe they will amend where this AAC budget is going. Bhaa!
This is going to get HOT. I shall be back later once I have typed up some statements on Word (before pasting them over).
"All this free time to write comments ...current are we?"
Not a chance of that on this 'Airfield'.
[This message has been edited by Bush Cat (edited 20 March 2000).]
where is the spell checker...
[This message has been edited by Bush Cat (edited 20 March 2000).]
A good subject choice for ripping into.
Also a fine way to start the next financial year off for the money spinners in JHC; maybe they will amend where this AAC budget is going. Bhaa!
This is going to get HOT. I shall be back later once I have typed up some statements on Word (before pasting them over).
"All this free time to write comments ...current are we?"
Not a chance of that on this 'Airfield'.[This message has been edited by Bush Cat (edited 20 March 2000).]
where is the spell checker...
[This message has been edited by Bush Cat (edited 20 March 2000).]
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Christopher Robin, you of all people should know what those about you would do to you if they twig to your AKA. The fact is mate you are 100% correct.
The revolution in technology that you speak of today is comparable to a revolution that took place a few years ago, at about the same time as the tank was new on the street. Remember when kites were made from linen and string and the pilots were known as the twenty minuters.
The Lords and masters who had a vision about the potential of air power decided that they would only be allowed grow outside the confines of the Army.
Ask yourself this question. If the General’s of that era wouldn’t accept the Tank as a replacement for the horse, what chance had the Bi-plane got?
Remember these people still believed that warfare would once again be like the charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava.
The RAF was formed before the end of the war; the RFC didn’t have enough believers or enough clout.
Does this sound familiar?
Have we come full circle?
Life is full of choices, do I turn left or right off the A3?
Sometimes it is less cruel to kill a comrade than see him suffer at the hands of a driller killer!
The sort of changes that you speak of will never work as long as the Army is in Air Corps. Or should I say Air Corps in the Army?
The reforms you want for the young Capt’s are the same as the NCO’s would like to see for themselves, so for once the other ranks agree with the officers. A rank structure that is as unique to the AAC as the Apache AH1.
We come back to the first problem we are all in the same Army. The rank structure has worked for hundreds of years. Tank troop commanders don’t stay on tanks forever.
Who can blame them?
Have you ever tried to change a tank track?
Tanks are bloody hard work. Flying however is not; it is fun and requires time, to enable a pilot to mature into a valuable asset. Like yourself, by the time you are ready and able to do a Flt Comds job you’ll be off to G3 @ shiny **** or back to your parent unit if you are E3. It is not your fault though!
The Army requires you to fill a slot for 3 years to pay for your training. Look at the number of people who leave and only ever pay their way, not even bothered about giving anything back. We have all seen the Cav & Inf officers come and go (glad about some of them) it is good for the young chap to gain experience in a different job. As long as that sort of mentality is in the driving seat, we stand little chance of getting the opportunity for the officer pilots to stay flying.
We have entered a new millennium with a new kite to fly, it fly’s okay, but it kills better, we need to keep the experience where it is needed, ON THE STICKS! That is to say if we want to become more than a flying club.
In my office today, the talk was, who is Christopher Robin?
Long may it stay that way!
WWD, good book!
[This message has been edited by 2's forward 1's back (edited 20 March 2000).]
[This message has been edited by 2's forward 1's back (edited 20 March 2000).]
The revolution in technology that you speak of today is comparable to a revolution that took place a few years ago, at about the same time as the tank was new on the street. Remember when kites were made from linen and string and the pilots were known as the twenty minuters.
The Lords and masters who had a vision about the potential of air power decided that they would only be allowed grow outside the confines of the Army.
Ask yourself this question. If the General’s of that era wouldn’t accept the Tank as a replacement for the horse, what chance had the Bi-plane got?
Remember these people still believed that warfare would once again be like the charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava.
The RAF was formed before the end of the war; the RFC didn’t have enough believers or enough clout.
Does this sound familiar?
Have we come full circle?
Life is full of choices, do I turn left or right off the A3?
Sometimes it is less cruel to kill a comrade than see him suffer at the hands of a driller killer!
The sort of changes that you speak of will never work as long as the Army is in Air Corps. Or should I say Air Corps in the Army?
The reforms you want for the young Capt’s are the same as the NCO’s would like to see for themselves, so for once the other ranks agree with the officers. A rank structure that is as unique to the AAC as the Apache AH1.
We come back to the first problem we are all in the same Army. The rank structure has worked for hundreds of years. Tank troop commanders don’t stay on tanks forever.
Who can blame them?
Have you ever tried to change a tank track?
Tanks are bloody hard work. Flying however is not; it is fun and requires time, to enable a pilot to mature into a valuable asset. Like yourself, by the time you are ready and able to do a Flt Comds job you’ll be off to G3 @ shiny **** or back to your parent unit if you are E3. It is not your fault though!
The Army requires you to fill a slot for 3 years to pay for your training. Look at the number of people who leave and only ever pay their way, not even bothered about giving anything back. We have all seen the Cav & Inf officers come and go (glad about some of them) it is good for the young chap to gain experience in a different job. As long as that sort of mentality is in the driving seat, we stand little chance of getting the opportunity for the officer pilots to stay flying.
We have entered a new millennium with a new kite to fly, it fly’s okay, but it kills better, we need to keep the experience where it is needed, ON THE STICKS! That is to say if we want to become more than a flying club.
In my office today, the talk was, who is Christopher Robin?
Long may it stay that way!
WWD, good book!
[This message has been edited by 2's forward 1's back (edited 20 March 2000).]
[This message has been edited by 2's forward 1's back (edited 20 March 2000).]
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At the moment many of us in the Sqn are going uncurrent. 'Not the Lynx crews again', I hear you say, but yes the Gazellies too. Due to the service wide PPPPPP of serviceability and of course - the AACs very own elastic band that seems to outstretch even the toughest of condoms. The Lynx crews gave up the Acorn's and groaning months ago. Please tell me if you don't have the same problems in your Sqns (no comments from 7 Reg or 25 Flt). What's more pathetic is that we have an exercise in a few months time in Canada, which is said to be of great importance for Army Aviation. Read between the lines; some crews will lose currency deliberately and be used to drive lorries for the Ex, experienced crews are being dragged away for TA type jobs and the main thrust for currency will be for Op tours. No change there then.
"Soldiers First" someone said. GET YOUR COAT SIR!
We definitely do not need has-beens in this new age of technology thinking that we can do double hatted jobs as pilots/engineers and of course ground crew. Think again.
Longbow Apache: Now that’s got a fine ring to it. I was fortunate enough to get my hands on the Jane's Limited Edition AH-64 Longbow CD game in the USA @ £9.99. I use the word 'game' so as to describe it to you. It is far from a game, in fact it's almost the real beast. There is a lot to learn especially for the HELARM type aviation we still do. Lets hope we get the time to master the machine.
My point - it is a very big 'cookie jar' this killing machine and it will require a dedicated work force to operate it to the full. So, should I get to operate it then I will want no other distraction for many, many years to give my best and 'fill my face'. I will want to eat, sleep (during the day as it will all be night Ops) and drink Longbow Attack. There will be no time for mundane courses that others 'think' we should do that have zero relevance to being an effective operator. You all know what those courses are. Maybe you can mention a few in you replies.
For the AAC Officers. I am sure you lied during your interviews too by saying you wanted to join the AAC to be an Officer First. When in fact anything would be said in order to get your hands on a flying machine, that is what I would call True Blue. Unless the Corps get it through the butt-plug that it needs Officers specialised as aircrew in-order-to (they will like that) Lead From The Front then we will continue to get Sqn Ocs that have been out of the aviation game since the HELARM era. And no it doesn't matter to me if I don't go on up in the ranks. There have been far too many good Officers that have gone to the other side simply because someone 'thinks' they have been flying too long and would suit a non flying job to better their carrier. What utter horse crap! How many people do you know that have their licences already and waiting for that day. A waste of good, expensive, experience.
Question time…This AH-64:
1. Where will the laser be fired, as I believe it to be far to strong for Europe?
2. Will the crews really stay current, or is that a myth?
3. Are the hangars going to changed from RAF Mk1 to Y2K standard?
4. How long will the crews expect to serve on the a/c before going off to become SQMS?
5. Why was Middle Wallop re-renovated to house the 64 at a monumental cost to the tax payers when Wattisham would have done? Is this to do with HQ DAAvn not wanting to move from South to East Anglia?
"They are an elite, men of high spirit, like submarine men too - their comradeship forged by shared hazards and the shared intoxication of manning intricate, almost invincible machines." David Irving, The Trail of the Fox: The Life of Field Marshal Erwin Rommel (1977).
For once we have the best option, so lets get Professional about it!
"Soldiers First" someone said. GET YOUR COAT SIR!
We definitely do not need has-beens in this new age of technology thinking that we can do double hatted jobs as pilots/engineers and of course ground crew. Think again.
Longbow Apache: Now that’s got a fine ring to it. I was fortunate enough to get my hands on the Jane's Limited Edition AH-64 Longbow CD game in the USA @ £9.99. I use the word 'game' so as to describe it to you. It is far from a game, in fact it's almost the real beast. There is a lot to learn especially for the HELARM type aviation we still do. Lets hope we get the time to master the machine.
My point - it is a very big 'cookie jar' this killing machine and it will require a dedicated work force to operate it to the full. So, should I get to operate it then I will want no other distraction for many, many years to give my best and 'fill my face'. I will want to eat, sleep (during the day as it will all be night Ops) and drink Longbow Attack. There will be no time for mundane courses that others 'think' we should do that have zero relevance to being an effective operator. You all know what those courses are. Maybe you can mention a few in you replies.
For the AAC Officers. I am sure you lied during your interviews too by saying you wanted to join the AAC to be an Officer First. When in fact anything would be said in order to get your hands on a flying machine, that is what I would call True Blue. Unless the Corps get it through the butt-plug that it needs Officers specialised as aircrew in-order-to (they will like that) Lead From The Front then we will continue to get Sqn Ocs that have been out of the aviation game since the HELARM era. And no it doesn't matter to me if I don't go on up in the ranks. There have been far too many good Officers that have gone to the other side simply because someone 'thinks' they have been flying too long and would suit a non flying job to better their carrier. What utter horse crap! How many people do you know that have their licences already and waiting for that day. A waste of good, expensive, experience.
Question time…This AH-64:
1. Where will the laser be fired, as I believe it to be far to strong for Europe?
2. Will the crews really stay current, or is that a myth?
3. Are the hangars going to changed from RAF Mk1 to Y2K standard?
4. How long will the crews expect to serve on the a/c before going off to become SQMS?
5. Why was Middle Wallop re-renovated to house the 64 at a monumental cost to the tax payers when Wattisham would have done? Is this to do with HQ DAAvn not wanting to move from South to East Anglia?
"They are an elite, men of high spirit, like submarine men too - their comradeship forged by shared hazards and the shared intoxication of manning intricate, almost invincible machines." David Irving, The Trail of the Fox: The Life of Field Marshal Erwin Rommel (1977).
For once we have the best option, so lets get Professional about it!Guest
Posts: n/a
Bush Cat 
I wondered if you'd forgotten your promise to post yesterday.
Glad to see that you employed your time wisely in constructing your reply.
I certainly hope that I won't be employed driving big nasty smelly trucks. It'll wreak havoc with my nails.
Seriously though a few good points. I've got to be honest if 'Wotashame', can't even sort out the accommodation for the Apaches that they are getting.{ What's wrong with using the 22?(I think)HASs. Wouldn't the MTO shift his trucks?}Why send the training organisation there. Never mind the lack of a decent LFA. How many flying compaints do you think will be generated in the first week of Apache OPs?? 1 or 2 I suspect.
No I think our Lords and Masters have got the location right on balance. As long as we get a decent slab of concrete!
I wondered if you'd forgotten your promise to post yesterday.
Glad to see that you employed your time wisely in constructing your reply.
I certainly hope that I won't be employed driving big nasty smelly trucks. It'll wreak havoc with my nails.
Seriously though a few good points. I've got to be honest if 'Wotashame', can't even sort out the accommodation for the Apaches that they are getting.{ What's wrong with using the 22?(I think)HASs. Wouldn't the MTO shift his trucks?}Why send the training organisation there. Never mind the lack of a decent LFA. How many flying compaints do you think will be generated in the first week of Apache OPs?? 1 or 2 I suspect.
No I think our Lords and Masters have got the location right on balance. As long as we get a decent slab of concrete!
Guest
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Lots of good stuff here. Christopher, I wouldn't fancy your confidential when someone twigs who you are.
Bush Cat's 4th point is very relevant. We all now the 64 is a quantum leap and it's going to take a long time not just to learn it, but to become competant with it. To that end, the Corps is going to have to change it's posting policy and keep people on it for a long time. When I left the Army my last Sqn had 23 out of 24 aircrew NVG Cat3. When I paid a visit some 18 months later, they had half a dozen comds, 3 or 4 pilots and a few crewman(most of who were uncurrent) with about 3 people Cat 3. I could have cried. That just cannot be allowed to happen with the 64.
Bush Cat's 4th point is very relevant. We all now the 64 is a quantum leap and it's going to take a long time not just to learn it, but to become competant with it. To that end, the Corps is going to have to change it's posting policy and keep people on it for a long time. When I left the Army my last Sqn had 23 out of 24 aircrew NVG Cat3. When I paid a visit some 18 months later, they had half a dozen comds, 3 or 4 pilots and a few crewman(most of who were uncurrent) with about 3 people Cat 3. I could have cried. That just cannot be allowed to happen with the 64.
Guest
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Spec Aircrew you have but I feel that at the moment the intimate knowledge of how us mud sluggers work is the restricting factor in giving it to you fine chaps in blue.
My feeling is that you guys should stick to what you do best and fly things that go V Fast J, and the big stuff to do the other bits.
I feel all helicopters (AH and SH) should be given to the Army (or a joint helicopter force not just command).
I find it ludicrous that 16 Air Assault Brigade is primarily an Army organisation with a job of moving troops with AH support but does not have the integral lift capacity to carry out this task. We have to come to you guys to lift men and material in any respectable quantity. This I feel is a recipe for disaster our operating practices are too far apart. This was highlighted on a recent Ex on Salisbury Plain where the SH fleet were working to a different set of rules than we were.
This is not intended to offend any SH guys out there but our working practices are a long way apart.
I do feel we have a lot to learn from the way you Blue boys operate but also vice versa for the SH guys. They need to look at the way we operate especially close to the front.
Communication between both forces at Sqn/Regt level is required to make sure we are playing by the same rules.
As for a joint Helicopter force well In my humble opinion the soon the better, it would lead to a much more efficient fighting and peace time machineJ
My feeling is that you guys should stick to what you do best and fly things that go V Fast J, and the big stuff to do the other bits.
I feel all helicopters (AH and SH) should be given to the Army (or a joint helicopter force not just command).
I find it ludicrous that 16 Air Assault Brigade is primarily an Army organisation with a job of moving troops with AH support but does not have the integral lift capacity to carry out this task. We have to come to you guys to lift men and material in any respectable quantity. This I feel is a recipe for disaster our operating practices are too far apart. This was highlighted on a recent Ex on Salisbury Plain where the SH fleet were working to a different set of rules than we were.
This is not intended to offend any SH guys out there but our working practices are a long way apart.
I do feel we have a lot to learn from the way you Blue boys operate but also vice versa for the SH guys. They need to look at the way we operate especially close to the front.
Communication between both forces at Sqn/Regt level is required to make sure we are playing by the same rules.
As for a joint Helicopter force well In my humble opinion the soon the better, it would lead to a much more efficient fighting and peace time machineJ
Guest
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To HPT the operating practices affect during peacetime excercises more than on op's, as hopefully you'll know, having worked along side you and yours on op's .The example of the Ex on Salisbury Plain being used, to the SH crews that turned up it was a task with a PUP and a DOP and a return time, Which allowed for no Tactical scenario and therefore the SH being taken out on the first drop off!
Not that it mattered to them as it wasn't their Ex and they'd be back in Odiham for lunch,win or lose.
P.S. Glad to see you check your E-Mail!!
[This message has been edited by Pep Tilbud (edited 22 March 2000).]
Not that it mattered to them as it wasn't their Ex and they'd be back in Odiham for lunch,win or lose.
P.S. Glad to see you check your E-Mail!!
[This message has been edited by Pep Tilbud (edited 22 March 2000).]
Guest
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HPT,
One of the main differences is that you guys work out your crew duty time in a different way to us. This makes it very difficult for a force commander to co-ordinate his lift capacity.
Others include the way that you guys have conducted yourselves on various Ex’s comments along the lines of “ we will do it our way you do it yours.” Which leads to again a lack of co-ordination between services.
I have many examples but I am not here to get into a “we are better than you” type argument all I am trying to say is that life is very difficult for commander 16 Bde when he is reliant on two services for hi helicopter support.
One of the main differences is that you guys work out your crew duty time in a different way to us. This makes it very difficult for a force commander to co-ordinate his lift capacity.
Others include the way that you guys have conducted yourselves on various Ex’s comments along the lines of “ we will do it our way you do it yours.” Which leads to again a lack of co-ordination between services.
I have many examples but I am not here to get into a “we are better than you” type argument all I am trying to say is that life is very difficult for commander 16 Bde when he is reliant on two services for hi helicopter support.
Guest
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Swine Disease - you surely don't want MCM Glasgow to be given the opportunity of screwing up the manning in the SH force as badly as it has the AAC! Moreover there are significant numbers of Blue Jobs who are intimately aware of what the brownjobs do on the battlefield so that is not much of an argument against RAF AH. Just look at the EW knowledge and training an SH pilot has compared to an AAC bloke and you might begin to understand that just hiding behind trees until the baddies have gone is not the way of the real battlefield any more!
Guest
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sparecrew
You have just highlighted a very servere point that us 'brownjobs' have still to get over.
Having been fortunate enough to share in those courses at Cranwell with you, I now begin to wonder if this beast should really have gone to the RAF, and left us, the AAC with the job of shifting the boys around.
We as potential Longbow aircrew are so far behind the drag curve with the introduction of this thing, that they will probably blame us for not being able to cope with the change i.e. from plodding around LFA 10 at 200'and pretending there are En out there.
We should, as a Corps, start the process NOW. Things such as, simple manuals to read , videos on the tech/layout/terminology of the machine, talks/lectures from those 'top-gun' AAC pilots that have had the chance to fly it, etc. Something that will prepare us for that 'smack in the face' in a year or two. I look around the crew room and wonder, how many of these other guys/girls will be able to cope with that SMACK!
Are we realy prepared?
You have just highlighted a very servere point that us 'brownjobs' have still to get over.
Having been fortunate enough to share in those courses at Cranwell with you, I now begin to wonder if this beast should really have gone to the RAF, and left us, the AAC with the job of shifting the boys around.
We as potential Longbow aircrew are so far behind the drag curve with the introduction of this thing, that they will probably blame us for not being able to cope with the change i.e. from plodding around LFA 10 at 200'and pretending there are En out there.
We should, as a Corps, start the process NOW. Things such as, simple manuals to read , videos on the tech/layout/terminology of the machine, talks/lectures from those 'top-gun' AAC pilots that have had the chance to fly it, etc. Something that will prepare us for that 'smack in the face' in a year or two. I look around the crew room and wonder, how many of these other guys/girls will be able to cope with that SMACK!
Are we realy prepared?
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Oy, SS, Yes You...
What's the problem with Reg???
Pig Sick, you like many people who don't really understand them blame issues like crew-duty for limiting SH involvement / participation. This simply isn't true. In fact SH crews can fly more hours in the day than we can. They do however provide more formalised guidance by means of CDT, than we use. The real crux is that they simply don't understand how to integrate into the forward battle space, not their fault, they've never been required to before, hence never learnt.
As to the cock-up on the recent Ex on SPTA, had SH been properly briefed as to exactly what was required, the Tac scenario and all that goes with it. Any bets??
HPT, I agree with you , even if you are a crab I don't think there are any fundamental problems. Additionally, I think that JHC is the best thing that's ever happened to all three services, and as we approach the 6 month point I continue to be amazed at how well it all seems to be going. I hear that the harmonisation of the NVG rules has been sorted and is soon to be introduced. No mean feat.
Sparecrew, I don't think that MCM could srew things up worse than Innsworth, as many other threads have testified in this forum, they're all as bad as each other, a uniform abysmally low standard. I do think you're simplifying the operations in the forward area though. Yes SH crews are better versed in matters appertaining to EW, but to be fair they've had the kit for longer and they had the ability to call upon FJ knowledge and experience.
Bush Cat, the reason the Top Guns aren't talking to you is they are working pretty hard sorting out the 1,000,000 and 1 things that need to be addressed before the beast arrives. If you really feel the need to have the knowledge, ask. If you don't know who to ask, your boss should, and keep on asking until you get the answers you want. There's a lot of knowledge around about this particular quantum leap.
Nuff said
What's the problem with Reg???
Pig Sick, you like many people who don't really understand them blame issues like crew-duty for limiting SH involvement / participation. This simply isn't true. In fact SH crews can fly more hours in the day than we can. They do however provide more formalised guidance by means of CDT, than we use. The real crux is that they simply don't understand how to integrate into the forward battle space, not their fault, they've never been required to before, hence never learnt.
As to the cock-up on the recent Ex on SPTA, had SH been properly briefed as to exactly what was required, the Tac scenario and all that goes with it. Any bets??
HPT, I agree with you , even if you are a crab
I don't think there are any fundamental problems. Additionally, I think that JHC is the best thing that's ever happened to all three services, and as we approach the 6 month point I continue to be amazed at how well it all seems to be going. I hear that the harmonisation of the NVG rules has been sorted and is soon to be introduced. No mean feat.Sparecrew, I don't think that MCM could srew things up worse than Innsworth, as many other threads have testified in this forum, they're all as bad as each other, a uniform abysmally low standard. I do think you're simplifying the operations in the forward area though. Yes SH crews are better versed in matters appertaining to EW, but to be fair they've had the kit for longer and they had the ability to call upon FJ knowledge and experience.
Bush Cat, the reason the Top Guns aren't talking to you is they are working pretty hard sorting out the 1,000,000 and 1 things that need to be addressed before the beast arrives. If you really feel the need to have the knowledge, ask. If you don't know who to ask, your boss should, and keep on asking until you get the answers you want. There's a lot of knowledge around about this particular quantum leap.
Nuff said