Married Quarters for the axe
Aylesbury is no worse than other local towns that you might be based near
Wittering - Peterborough
High Wycombe - High Wycombe
Shrivenham - Swindon
Henlow - Bedford or Letchworth
Odiham - Basingstoke or Aldershot
Coningsby - Boston
There are plenty of rubbish market towns/cities out there...
LJ
Wittering - Peterborough
High Wycombe - High Wycombe
Shrivenham - Swindon
Henlow - Bedford or Letchworth
Odiham - Basingstoke or Aldershot
Coningsby - Boston
There are plenty of rubbish market towns/cities out there...
LJ
The average 3 bed in Aylesbury cost ~£200k (the average 2 bed ~£120-140k). The average Cpl earns about £30k pa. A mortgage company will normally loan to about 4.5 times single salary with a £40k deposit so our Cpl would be £25k short. However, for those with working wives earning another £20k and a loan of 3.5 times joint salary and we start to get towards the right numbers:
3.5 times £50k joint salary = £175k loan maximum with a £25k deposit (which is 87.5% loan to value)
The only question is, where does a Cpl with a young family find £25k? That would be where a scheme would need to provide help - which is my understanding of what is being considered for the New Employment Model and the loss of SFA after a set amount of time. Also, I believe that options to pay slightly more for those not entitled to SFA is also being looked at.
This is from the MOD's NEM frequently asked questions:
For a Sgt, who earns £35k then the sums are better - that extra £5k makes the first single income example affordable.
LJ
3.5 times £50k joint salary = £175k loan maximum with a £25k deposit (which is 87.5% loan to value)
The only question is, where does a Cpl with a young family find £25k? That would be where a scheme would need to provide help - which is my understanding of what is being considered for the New Employment Model and the loss of SFA after a set amount of time. Also, I believe that options to pay slightly more for those not entitled to SFA is also being looked at.
This is from the MOD's NEM frequently asked questions:
10. Will Service provided accommodation be available in the future?
Yes. Service provided accommodation will remain an important part of the offer for those people that need it. However, overall, the NEM programme seeks to maximise stability, support personal choice and reduce the dependency on publicly supported accommodation. Consequently, options for a different approach to the provision of accommodation are being explored, one of which includes improved financial assistance for personnel to buy a home.
Yes. Service provided accommodation will remain an important part of the offer for those people that need it. However, overall, the NEM programme seeks to maximise stability, support personal choice and reduce the dependency on publicly supported accommodation. Consequently, options for a different approach to the provision of accommodation are being explored, one of which includes improved financial assistance for personnel to buy a home.
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 24th Nov 2012 at 21:14.
I would imagine the NEM scheme to be something like this...
Which would be affordable for the average Cpl and at the end of it they would be better off than just renting a quarter. 
PS. Just done the sums for the £200k example in this scheme and you would pay £145/month for the interest only equity portion and about another £500/month on an £85k mortgage. Total £645/month. Now if the MOD increase the wages by £400/month to cover for the loss of quarters (a pay increase of £600 before tax for a Cpl) then the Cpl would be better off with a house they own, the MOD would not have to pay for SFA upkeep and SSFA when no quarters are available and possibly everyone would be a winner?
Catalyst Housing Group, the Government-appointed HomeBuy agent for Berkshire, Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire, has launched a new scheme which offers first-time buyers up to 50 per cent of the cost of their home.
MyChoice HomeBuy will be available for households with annual incomes between £20,000 and £60,000.
Buyers will pay 1.75 per cent interest on the half paid for by the scheme.
The buyer will have to take out a conventional mortgage on the other 50 per cent.
The scheme is aimed at public sector key workers such as health professionals, teachers, firefighters and emergency service employees.
MyChoice HomeBuy will be available for households with annual incomes between £20,000 and £60,000.
Buyers will pay 1.75 per cent interest on the half paid for by the scheme.
The buyer will have to take out a conventional mortgage on the other 50 per cent.
The scheme is aimed at public sector key workers such as health professionals, teachers, firefighters and emergency service employees.
PS. Just done the sums for the £200k example in this scheme and you would pay £145/month for the interest only equity portion and about another £500/month on an £85k mortgage. Total £645/month. Now if the MOD increase the wages by £400/month to cover for the loss of quarters (a pay increase of £600 before tax for a Cpl) then the Cpl would be better off with a house they own, the MOD would not have to pay for SFA upkeep and SSFA when no quarters are available and possibly everyone would be a winner?
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 24th Nov 2012 at 21:42.
LJ,
You were making sense until you got to this bit:
But I guess the effects of last nights waccy baccy were starting to kick in as you got to the end of your note? Or are you looking ahead to the year 2035? 
You were making sense until you got to this bit:
Now if the MOD increase the wages by £400/month to cover for the loss of quarters (a pay increase of £600 before tax for a Cpl)
No waccy baccy across my Movember effort, my friend.
In Feb 12 it was reported that the annual SFA bill was ~£318M. It also reported that ~60% used SFA/SSFA. So for 30,000 RN, 80,0000 Army and 30,000 RAF personnel then 60% would be 72,000. Divide £318M by 72,000 and you get roughly £4.5k each. Now not everybody will need a rise to buy a home as big as a Cpl - so there should be a small saving to be had. Furthermore, people would be on the housing ladder and would expect to have a large part of their home paid off by the time they finished their service (like we used to in the old days with tax-free lump sum). Happier people means safer aircraft and better productivity, plus also the experience may stay in one place increasing our chances of better air power provision.
The USAF do something similar with a housing allowance that is added to wages. You can either rent (and waste it) or buy with it and invest it.
It's different, but it should work if done properly - and there lies the problem, now where's my waccy baccy!
LJ
In Feb 12 it was reported that the annual SFA bill was ~£318M. It also reported that ~60% used SFA/SSFA. So for 30,000 RN, 80,0000 Army and 30,000 RAF personnel then 60% would be 72,000. Divide £318M by 72,000 and you get roughly £4.5k each. Now not everybody will need a rise to buy a home as big as a Cpl - so there should be a small saving to be had. Furthermore, people would be on the housing ladder and would expect to have a large part of their home paid off by the time they finished their service (like we used to in the old days with tax-free lump sum). Happier people means safer aircraft and better productivity, plus also the experience may stay in one place increasing our chances of better air power provision.
The USAF do something similar with a housing allowance that is added to wages. You can either rent (and waste it) or buy with it and invest it.
It's different, but it should work if done properly - and there lies the problem, now where's my waccy baccy!
LJ
Leon
And therein lies the problem with your cunning plan. We are talking about the SCS and HMT here who will just take your £318M as a savings measure to be spent on the NHS or social security.
And of course shouldn't you figures be divided by all of the armed forces personnel? We all need accommodation, and it would be somewhat divisive to say to Cpl Bloggs here is an extra £X.xK for your housing allowance, but Cpl Jones you already have a house so you aren't entitled.
Do the singlies get this allowance so that they can buy their own home? After all they only have a single income to get on the housing ladder with.
And of course encouraging people out of MQs will have a big impact upon the military. As people move out into the wider community, the military community around the unit will gradually disintegrate. If no-one wants to take on the secondary duties on base (running the clubs, societies, scout/brownie packs etc etc) because they live on base then another of those little intangibles disappears forever. If you want an example of this, you should have seen what happened to the social life at Kinloss when large numbers of personnel were moved from MQs on base to PFI MQs 10 miles away in Elgin.
but it should work if done properly
And of course shouldn't you figures be divided by all of the armed forces personnel? We all need accommodation, and it would be somewhat divisive to say to Cpl Bloggs here is an extra £X.xK for your housing allowance, but Cpl Jones you already have a house so you aren't entitled.
Do the singlies get this allowance so that they can buy their own home? After all they only have a single income to get on the housing ladder with.
And of course encouraging people out of MQs will have a big impact upon the military. As people move out into the wider community, the military community around the unit will gradually disintegrate. If no-one wants to take on the secondary duties on base (running the clubs, societies, scout/brownie packs etc etc) because they live on base then another of those little intangibles disappears forever. If you want an example of this, you should have seen what happened to the social life at Kinloss when large numbers of personnel were moved from MQs on base to PFI MQs 10 miles away in Elgin.
Last edited by Roland Pulfrew; 25th Nov 2012 at 10:35.
Roland
No one said it would be easy...
Yes, I agree with the majority of the points but I really don't believe that we have a choice. Our housing stock is knackered (because Portillo agreed to sell it off in the late 90s) and we have no money to replace. Everyone recognises the need for providing accomodation for our forces (just like schemes have been develpoed for nurses, policemen and firefighters). It's just how to do it.
I don't know what the final solution will be - it's just my guesswork and rumour.
LJ
No one said it would be easy...
Yes, I agree with the majority of the points but I really don't believe that we have a choice. Our housing stock is knackered (because Portillo agreed to sell it off in the late 90s) and we have no money to replace. Everyone recognises the need for providing accomodation for our forces (just like schemes have been develpoed for nurses, policemen and firefighters). It's just how to do it.
I don't know what the final solution will be - it's just my guesswork and rumour.
LJ
Quite right SOS.
How this plan will hold together for any period of time is beyond me. We had various schemes to help saving for housing and then, the big sell-off's that benefited a few, then the Annington sell-offs that helped even less! Now, it seems, the whole basis of service accommodation is to be dissolved. I doubt that the scheme will give any more in the long term towards the total value of the employment package. I may be wrong. I would like to see more serving personnel own their own homes but, it has long been a strength of the services that affordable quarters would be available wherever you might be posted (if accompanied).
Hope I am wrong about this.
OAP
How this plan will hold together for any period of time is beyond me. We had various schemes to help saving for housing and then, the big sell-off's that benefited a few, then the Annington sell-offs that helped even less! Now, it seems, the whole basis of service accommodation is to be dissolved. I doubt that the scheme will give any more in the long term towards the total value of the employment package. I may be wrong. I would like to see more serving personnel own their own homes but, it has long been a strength of the services that affordable quarters would be available wherever you might be posted (if accompanied).
Hope I am wrong about this.
OAP
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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Leon - #68
Hi, LJ. Sadly, the "housing ladder" tends to slope downwards these days. Boys and girls with negative equity don't always perform well.
Rgds SOS
Rgds SOS
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At least 'they' are addressing the issue for 'singlies' at some stations.
RAF Odiham accommodation plans approved (From This is Hampshire)
RAF Odiham accommodation block approved - News - gethampshire
Well, the commissioned ones anyway.
RAF Odiham accommodation plans approved (From This is Hampshire)
RAF Odiham accommodation block approved - News - gethampshire
A PLAN to build accommodation for officers at RAF Odiham has been approved.
The Ministry of Defence applied to build a block near the current officers’ mess to stop reliance on off-base housing and to house officers associated with the base’s planned 12 new Mk6 Chinooks.
The two-storey block will contain 44 bedrooms for junior officers and nine larger suites for senior officers.
The Ministry of Defence applied to build a block near the current officers’ mess to stop reliance on off-base housing and to house officers associated with the base’s planned 12 new Mk6 Chinooks.
The two-storey block will contain 44 bedrooms for junior officers and nine larger suites for senior officers.
Last edited by TheWizard; 25th Nov 2012 at 21:32.
Basingstoke is near Odiham (9 miles)...the average prices look about the same as Aylesbury:
BBC NEWS | In Depth | UK House Prices | Basingstoke and Deane
Here is a 2 bed terrace up for £184k
House for sale/rent in Chineham, Basingstoke - Winkworth
Or a 2 bed house in Alton for £187k
Warren Powell-Richards Estate Agent
BBC NEWS | In Depth | UK House Prices | Basingstoke and Deane
Here is a 2 bed terrace up for £184k
House for sale/rent in Chineham, Basingstoke - Winkworth
Or a 2 bed house in Alton for £187k
Warren Powell-Richards Estate Agent
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 26th Nov 2012 at 16:33.
LJ, my apologies but I was thinking far too parochially with a clear eye on self-interest. You're absolutely right that property is available at those prices and salary multiples if that's what you want and where you want to live.
I think you all may be missing a very important point. The statement about giving service personnel long tours and stability to buy, own and live in their own home is utter (to quote BEags) bolleaux. As the services contract, it will become increasingly difficult to find any 'slack' in the system and the "HR" people will be making the same old phone calls explaining why they would love to leave you there, but the needs of the Service.....
You know where this is going. Pilots will still do 2-3 year front line tours, same with engineers, loggies, scribblies, etc., etc. They will need to be posted to new roles for their careers and, more significantly, to fill the gaps as the Service needs them. Sorry, RAF centric, but that's the one I know.
Stability. Utter rot. You'll be buying and selling, renting and disputing contractted lets just as much as you are now.
Discuss.
You know where this is going. Pilots will still do 2-3 year front line tours, same with engineers, loggies, scribblies, etc., etc. They will need to be posted to new roles for their careers and, more significantly, to fill the gaps as the Service needs them. Sorry, RAF centric, but that's the one I know.
Stability. Utter rot. You'll be buying and selling, renting and disputing contractted lets just as much as you are now.
Discuss.
Courtney
I bought quite near your locale - within 90 minutes of quite a few places - Wittering, Wyton, Cranwell, Waddington, High Wycombe, Benson, Brize Norton, Northolt, Northwood, Shrivenham, Cosford, Brampton, Henlow, Halton, Bentley Priory (when we had it
) and by train to MOD Main Building. I knew I would have to suck-up a 90 minute commute for some postings (the normal maximum time allowable), and have less than 35 minutes for others. I would get HTD and also it was better than living in the Mess during the week staying away from my family. 9 years later and 4 postings in, I haven't found the need to move. Yes, I might have been given something like the dreaded '4Ls' of Leuchars, Lossie, Linton or Leeming; but there are enough people who want to stay in those places.
It can be done with a bit of lateral thinking and a broad portfolio of skills. It can knacker your car though - one of the 2 year tours I put 50,000 miles on a diesel!
It is also not unusual in civvy street. I'm sure there are those in your Finmere village that commute daily to the City via Bicester North - probably a trip of over 90 minutes? Plus they will doing that for life (or until they jump off Canary Wharf!).
Finally, I don't like the idea of the SFA rumours, but I'm trying to reassure that there are alternatives.
LJ
I bought quite near your locale - within 90 minutes of quite a few places - Wittering, Wyton, Cranwell, Waddington, High Wycombe, Benson, Brize Norton, Northolt, Northwood, Shrivenham, Cosford, Brampton, Henlow, Halton, Bentley Priory (when we had it
) and by train to MOD Main Building. I knew I would have to suck-up a 90 minute commute for some postings (the normal maximum time allowable), and have less than 35 minutes for others. I would get HTD and also it was better than living in the Mess during the week staying away from my family. 9 years later and 4 postings in, I haven't found the need to move. Yes, I might have been given something like the dreaded '4Ls' of Leuchars, Lossie, Linton or Leeming; but there are enough people who want to stay in those places.It can be done with a bit of lateral thinking and a broad portfolio of skills. It can knacker your car though - one of the 2 year tours I put 50,000 miles on a diesel!
It is also not unusual in civvy street. I'm sure there are those in your Finmere village that commute daily to the City via Bicester North - probably a trip of over 90 minutes? Plus they will doing that for life (or until they jump off Canary Wharf!).
Finally, I don't like the idea of the SFA rumours, but I'm trying to reassure that there are alternatives.
LJ
Knew this was coming amongst other things under the great sounding New Employment Model and was another reason 18 months ago I told the MoD to shove it up their hoop! Look on the bright side...someone probably got an MBE or promotion out of these bright ideas!
