Hunting Somali Pirates From The Air
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Airborne Aircrew:
If you spend more time researching the issue and less time deciding which sarcastic smiley to use you'd know that piracy in international waters is punishable under the jurisdiction of the nation who capture the pirates:
Piracy and International Law
So that makes UK and US law rather relevant.
PTT:
I'm glad that's cleared up then... Just two countries in the world... It should fix all the visa/passport and currency issues.. 
It's not justice in either country, apparently.
One of the oldest, clearest and least controversial rules of international law is that any country can prosecute any pirates they happen to apprehend.
So that makes UK and US law rather relevant.
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So that makes UK and US law rather relevant.
Ten suspected Somali pirates captured by the Russian navy last week may have perished after their release, a defence source in Moscow has told reporters.
Marines seized them during a dramatic operation to free a hijacked Russian oil tanker far from shore, killing an 11th suspect in the gun battle.
They were released in an inflatable boat without navigational equipment.
Within an hour, contact was lost with the boat's radio beacon, the defence source said.
"It seems that they all died," the unnamed source was quoted as saying by Russia's Interfax news agency.
Marines seized them during a dramatic operation to free a hijacked Russian oil tanker far from shore, killing an 11th suspect in the gun battle.
They were released in an inflatable boat without navigational equipment.
Within an hour, contact was lost with the boat's radio beacon, the defence source said.
"It seems that they all died," the unnamed source was quoted as saying by Russia's Interfax news agency.
I'm quite sure that the "unnamed source" knew a little more than he was letting on.
Simple, efficient and at the cost of a worn out rubber dinghy... and maybe some 7.62x39 ... Justice...
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I'm well aware of that incident. I'm also well aware that neither you (according to your profile) nor I either live in or are Russian, and I certainly wouldn't want Russian law to apply to me. Would you want it to apply to you? I don't care what the Russians do; I do care what my government does.
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PTT:
I certainly don't wish to be subject to Russian law. But, at the same time, I'm not carrying out acts of piracy in international waters...
I wish my government would treat people like this in the harshest of fashions rather than coddle them and shower them with rights they don't deserve and actively deprive others of. It's similar to "Peace through superior firepower"...
I certainly don't wish to be subject to Russian law. But, at the same time, I'm not carrying out acts of piracy in international waters...
I wish my government would treat people like this in the harshest of fashions rather than coddle them and shower them with rights they don't deserve and actively deprive others of. It's similar to "Peace through superior firepower"...
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PTT:
You should probably take that graphic in your post above and direct it towards yourself. If you skim back through our conversation you'll note that, at no time, have I said that the UK or US should carry out such an act. I even went as far as to state "I wish my government would treat people like this in the harshest of fashions...". I have kept making the point that there are other countries capable and able to to the job the right way... You seem to have missed that point by a mile... 
Then you need to lobby to get the law changed rather than advocate acting outside of it.
That childish cartoon may have been directed at me. What I mean about personal liberty is:
The liberty to walk down a street at any time, anywhere, day or night free from the fear of getting mugged or assaulted.
The liberty of knowing that your children can go to school and return by themselves without the fear of the being abducted.
The liberty of knowing that your female friends can walk home at night without the fear of being molested or raped.
The liberty of being able to enjoy yourself in your own way as long as you do not impinge on others enjoying themselves without some PC correct law stopping you.
Some people call those liberties Human Rights.
The sole example of modern piracy in China was about a decade ago when a Hong Kong/Macau ferry crossing the Pearl River was intercepted. They were caught and the inevitable bullet went into the back of their heads. There has not been a problem since.
The liberty to walk down a street at any time, anywhere, day or night free from the fear of getting mugged or assaulted.
The liberty of knowing that your children can go to school and return by themselves without the fear of the being abducted.
The liberty of knowing that your female friends can walk home at night without the fear of being molested or raped.
The liberty of being able to enjoy yourself in your own way as long as you do not impinge on others enjoying themselves without some PC correct law stopping you.
Some people call those liberties Human Rights.
The sole example of modern piracy in China was about a decade ago when a Hong Kong/Macau ferry crossing the Pearl River was intercepted. They were caught and the inevitable bullet went into the back of their heads. There has not been a problem since.
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AA - apologies for misconstruing your intent there. However, I do disagree with your principle entirely. Justice must be seen to be done, not vengeance. This is not some fairy story where the characters are black and white.
Fareastdriver - not the place to go into China's human rights record, I think. Glad you had a nice time there though...
Fareastdriver - not the place to go into China's human rights record, I think. Glad you had a nice time there though...
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I think detecting these 'pirates' in open water is the easiest part of the operation and I accept the word 'easy' is relative but the reality is that all you usually have is 'three men in a boat' armed with guns. Is carrying a loaded firearm on a fishing boat in International waters illegal? Finding the boat out at sea is one thing, getting a successful prosecution without a complainant prepared to give evidence in the country that is holding the alleged pirates is quite another.
These pirates are based in what is a lawless state and Cheri Blair will be the first to defend these innocent seafarers that are merely carrying RPG's, AK47's etc for self protection.
The problem as far as I understand it is the victim has to lay the complaint and the flagged country of the attacked vessel then has to deal with the arrested pirates. We are ALL innocent until proved beyond a reasonable doubt to be guilty of an offence and these pirates are just as entitled to that as any one of us.
I hate how we are being made fools of, I hate to see ships held to ransom by these individuals but I WILL NOT agree with some of the silly suggestions being voiced on this thread.
The Russian story is a good story, but just like most good stories it begins with 'Once upon a time'.
Solve the problem in Somalia and then the problem on the high seas can hopefully be eradicated.
John
These pirates are based in what is a lawless state and Cheri Blair will be the first to defend these innocent seafarers that are merely carrying RPG's, AK47's etc for self protection.
The problem as far as I understand it is the victim has to lay the complaint and the flagged country of the attacked vessel then has to deal with the arrested pirates. We are ALL innocent until proved beyond a reasonable doubt to be guilty of an offence and these pirates are just as entitled to that as any one of us.
I hate how we are being made fools of, I hate to see ships held to ransom by these individuals but I WILL NOT agree with some of the silly suggestions being voiced on this thread.
The Russian story is a good story, but just like most good stories it begins with 'Once upon a time'.
Solve the problem in Somalia and then the problem on the high seas can hopefully be eradicated.
John
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Solve the problem in Somalia and then the problem on the high seas can hopefully be eradicated.
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As with all these problems, solving them at source is the only way to a permanent solution. Blowing the s**t out of them is easy but doesn't cure the reason they are there in in the first place. How else did we solve Northern Ireland? What about talking to the Taliban to solve AFG? Wishing the Pakistanis would sort their s**t out and decide which side they are on? Ooops! I digress.
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Sorry Glojo but you sound like a candidate for Miss World... Throw in world peace why don't you, it won't make the overall problem any worse.
Any solution must be economic, since it is economic pressure which is driving them to criminality.
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PTT:
So, are we supposed to keep throwing money at the situation? It all goes down a very corrupt drain. So, let's rethink... Quit giving all that money to Africa and let them sort themselves out. The ones that deal with the piracy issue might get back on the aid train, the rest get naff all. See how long it takes for them to take control. Oh, and don't worry about the morality of what goes on there... It's not our business.
So, are we supposed to keep throwing money at the situation? It all goes down a very corrupt drain. So, let's rethink... Quit giving all that money to Africa and let them sort themselves out. The ones that deal with the piracy issue might get back on the aid train, the rest get naff all. See how long it takes for them to take control. Oh, and don't worry about the morality of what goes on there... It's not our business.
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Originally Posted by AA
Sorry Glojo but you sound like a candidate for Miss World... Throw in world peace why don't you, it won't make the overall problem any worse
Don't get me wrong.. If pirates are caught in the act of attacking a foreign flagged ship then they are in VERY deep doo doos... If they are putting innocent people in fear of their lives, then they are in deep doo doos.
However the sad reality is that every nation involved in policing that area are regularly having to simply release these unsavoury characters solely because of the lack of any real proof that would stand up in any court of law.
These are just a very few examples of what is really happening on station, so yes hunting these pirates from the air would be nice but they have to be filmed in the act, and not the act some of you might be thinking about!!!
The Royal Navy may be forced to release suspected pirates captured in the Indian Ocean because no country is willing to prosecute them. A team of Royal Marines arrested 14 Somalis on a hijacked fishing boat on Saturday and found rocket-propelled grenades, assault rifles and explosives.
Kenya and the Seychelles have tried suspected pirates in the past but both have refused to take the latest captives because their court systems are swamped. The men caught on Saturday joined two other suspected pirates already under arrest on a second Royal Navy vessel. The American, Danish and Spanish navies are between them holding a further 46 men captured during anti-piracy patrols over the last six weeks.
Kenya and the Seychelles have tried suspected pirates in the past but both have refused to take the latest captives because their court systems are swamped. The men caught on Saturday joined two other suspected pirates already under arrest on a second Royal Navy vessel. The American, Danish and Spanish navies are between them holding a further 46 men captured during anti-piracy patrols over the last six weeks.
The U.S. Navy released nine of the 16 suspected pirates it was holding on a ship for the last few weeks, according to defense officials.
The pirates were released because the Navy did not have enough evidence to hand them over to Kenya for prosecution in court, in accordance with a recent agreement between the United States and Kenya, the officials explained.
The pirates were released because the Navy did not have enough evidence to hand them over to Kenya for prosecution in court, in accordance with a recent agreement between the United States and Kenya, the officials explained.
ESPNS PATIÑO’s Commanding Officer, who experienced a pirate attack on his ship in January, decided to launch one of the helicopters to investigate and stop the skiff. After sending the boarding team, and conducting a proper investigation, there some evidences were observed that related the skiff and people onboard to piracy. Although the four suspect pirates claimed to be fishermen, no a single tool for fishing was found. The suspect pirates were examined and questioned, but as they could not be related to a recent pirate attack, they were provided with water and food, and released with the skiff.
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Don't get me wrong.. If pirates are caught in the act of attacking a foreign flagged ship then they are in VERY deep doo doos... If they are putting innocent people in fear of their lives, then they are in deep doo doos.
* The Sig is in a Bio-safe... It requires my or my wife's fingerprint to be read before it opens... My daughter nor anyone else can access the safe without me allowing the safe to learn their fingerprint. My daughter is 5, it will be a couple of years or more before she is granted access...
For those who might equate this with a lifestyle that is lived "in fear" I can assure you it is not. I live in an area with practically zero crime... Rolling through a Stop sign excites our local police...
But I'd rather be ready for the worst than wishing for a miracle if things go wrong.
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Why do we allow unarmed and unprotected ships ply their trade in these waters? Taking them to a court after they have destroyed a family/families lives is not right. Arm the ships would help.
I agree this is entirely the correct response, but there are fears it will lead to an arms race, and I can see those being valid. Worst (or at least "very bad") case, pirates will start carrying something with which that can actually seriously cripple or sink such a ship should it not surrender, leading to potentially disastrous environmental consequences. While arming ships may work now, what do we do when the pirates become better armed in such a manner?
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Wow, I'm impressed.
As an example, a couple of years ago, a man, his wife and daughter were the victims of a home invasion just 25 miles away in a nice quiet township. The wife and small child were killed horribly. He died by having bleach forced down his throat.
Own a gun????? Don't own a gun????
I'd rather not watch my wife and daughter die horribly as I watch helplessly only to be murdered in the worst possible way...
Your mileage may vary.
Do I live in fear? No. Am I prepared? Yes... If you fly/flew aircraft you'll understand the concept...