AGM-65 Maverick - RAF service?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 356
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From: the heathen lands
AGM-65 Maverick - RAF service?
Gents,
lots of sources, the RAF among them, say that AGM-65 was/is both a 'rated' weapon cleared for use on RAF Harriers and RAF Tornado's and an actual, bought and used weapon in RAF service - yet i've never seen/heard of one being used by the RAF despite all the opportunities that the last 10 years of aggressive camping holidays in the sun have provided.
can the assembled brains trust clear this up - was AGM-65 ever really in RAF service in the same way as Sea Eagle, ALARM, BL775 etc.. whats the current state, and has it ever been used in anger by the RAF?
lots of sources, the RAF among them, say that AGM-65 was/is both a 'rated' weapon cleared for use on RAF Harriers and RAF Tornado's and an actual, bought and used weapon in RAF service - yet i've never seen/heard of one being used by the RAF despite all the opportunities that the last 10 years of aggressive camping holidays in the sun have provided.
can the assembled brains trust clear this up - was AGM-65 ever really in RAF service in the same way as Sea Eagle, ALARM, BL775 etc.. whats the current state, and has it ever been used in anger by the RAF?
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,158
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From: UK
Don't think Maverick on the GR4 got any further than modelling work with BAE & Raytheon. It's a pretty big missile for the outboard stubs and it weighs as much as an ALARM. With DMS Brimstone on the way I can't imagine they went much further into the possible integration of Maverick on the GR4 but someone may know more.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 42
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From: Aberystwyth
Is there a plan to make use of Maverick on Typhoon at all, or will existing stocks be sold/scrapped along with the Harrier? I suppose dual mode Brimstone is better for most CAS tasks, given greater flexibility and the ability to carry more of them, but the larger Maverick warhead might be more useful against larger or more hardened targets.
(Thinking out loud again...what about the Sniper pods and Terma pods bought under UOR for the Harrier? I once read Sniper was being trialled on a Tornado GR4 but never saw any pictures. I expect the Terma pod for Tornado has much commonality with that on the Harrier, so presumably lots of spares/consumables carry across to the GR4 fleet if nothing else).
(Thinking out loud again...what about the Sniper pods and Terma pods bought under UOR for the Harrier? I once read Sniper was being trialled on a Tornado GR4 but never saw any pictures. I expect the Terma pod for Tornado has much commonality with that on the Harrier, so presumably lots of spares/consumables carry across to the GR4 fleet if nothing else).
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,049
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From: Wherever it is this month
The OEU mounted a Maverick underneath a Tornado and got it talking on the weapons databus. That was as far as Mav on Tornado got, it was never flown.
For current ops the DMS Brimstone is more useful as the target discrimination capability of a modern laser designator pod is far greater than the relatively poor resolution of the IR or TV seeker on the UK variants of Maverick. Also, there is a man-in-the-loop all the way to impact with DMSB, which is quite important in the stringent ROE environment of today's limited conflicts (for example, if a school bus full of nuns [imams?] drove very close to Terry Taliban's truck whilst a Mav was inbound, it would be quite possible for the Mav to transfer its tracking onto the wrong vehicle, and there would be nothing the pilot could do about it
). DMSB has a small warhead and at times the 'punch' of an AGM-65 would be useful; however at other times it would be a handicap. I stand ready to be corrected, but I believe that the GR7/9 force only ever loaded Maverick in HERRICK when they had a heads-up of a possible moving target (which would have been tricky to engage with the other weapons available to the Harrier force at the time).
Because of the ROE issues, Laser Maverick (AGM-65E) would have been the most useful variant, but that was never procured by the UK. It was a US Navy variant that had gone out of production several years ago; I believe the USAF did investigate restarting the production line, but I have no idea whether it has actually been fielded in recent years.
As ever, flexibility is key, so in an ideal world you'd be able to carry both DMS and Maverick! However it costs so much to integrate and flight trial weapons these days that we make do with what we've got...
I don't think Sniper will be added to Tornado or Typhoon. It is a technological dead-end; there is nothing more that can be squeezed from it, and we only have a relatively small number of them. Litening, on the other hand, has bags of development room; new sensor heads and reconnaissance add-ons are being developed, all remaining within the same pod shape and size (avoiding the dreaded cost of the flight carriage trial).
As has been alluded to on other current threads, weapon integration on Typhoon is even less straightforward than on Tornado. They are far more interested in getting Storm Shadow, Paveway IV and a recce pod onto Typhoon so that they can retire the Tornado fleet. This is going to take quite long enough already without introducing the added cost and time required to make use of a small, relatively un-useful stock of TV and IR Mav...
For current ops the DMS Brimstone is more useful as the target discrimination capability of a modern laser designator pod is far greater than the relatively poor resolution of the IR or TV seeker on the UK variants of Maverick. Also, there is a man-in-the-loop all the way to impact with DMSB, which is quite important in the stringent ROE environment of today's limited conflicts (for example, if a school bus full of nuns [imams?] drove very close to Terry Taliban's truck whilst a Mav was inbound, it would be quite possible for the Mav to transfer its tracking onto the wrong vehicle, and there would be nothing the pilot could do about it
). DMSB has a small warhead and at times the 'punch' of an AGM-65 would be useful; however at other times it would be a handicap. I stand ready to be corrected, but I believe that the GR7/9 force only ever loaded Maverick in HERRICK when they had a heads-up of a possible moving target (which would have been tricky to engage with the other weapons available to the Harrier force at the time).Because of the ROE issues, Laser Maverick (AGM-65E) would have been the most useful variant, but that was never procured by the UK. It was a US Navy variant that had gone out of production several years ago; I believe the USAF did investigate restarting the production line, but I have no idea whether it has actually been fielded in recent years.
As ever, flexibility is key, so in an ideal world you'd be able to carry both DMS and Maverick! However it costs so much to integrate and flight trial weapons these days that we make do with what we've got...
I don't think Sniper will be added to Tornado or Typhoon. It is a technological dead-end; there is nothing more that can be squeezed from it, and we only have a relatively small number of them. Litening, on the other hand, has bags of development room; new sensor heads and reconnaissance add-ons are being developed, all remaining within the same pod shape and size (avoiding the dreaded cost of the flight carriage trial).
As has been alluded to on other current threads, weapon integration on Typhoon is even less straightforward than on Tornado. They are far more interested in getting Storm Shadow, Paveway IV and a recce pod onto Typhoon so that they can retire the Tornado fleet. This is going to take quite long enough already without introducing the added cost and time required to make use of a small, relatively un-useful stock of TV and IR Mav...
Last edited by Easy Street; 10th February 2012 at 21:59.
