Senior Officer Numbers in MOD
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Senior Officer Numbers in MOD
Did anyone else notice this article Armed Forces chiefs dodge redundancies - Telegraph
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Good comparison in the article with Uncle Sam's Misguided Children. I doubt that the world would end were the country to have a shower of falling stars.
Yup. I also noticed how, in the process of reducing the size of the HQ at High Wycombe, we've managed to create new 1* posts by establishing 1* Force Commands at airfields
Surely we've got the stage where we have one 4* CDS, three 3* heads of service and then downwards. But then it would also help if we did a re-structuring across Defence that actually allowed us to deliver effectively, rather than salami slicing to ensure that everyone keeps their own little empire; BM being a case in point 
Surely we've got the stage where we have one 4* CDS, three 3* heads of service and then downwards. But then it would also help if we did a re-structuring across Defence that actually allowed us to deliver effectively, rather than salami slicing to ensure that everyone keeps their own little empire; BM being a case in point
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I believe some Air Forces have managed to reduce their command structure with a consequent drop in star count. (RNZAF - group!)
Now we have a 'high' star count so we can look other air forces eye to eye. Well the US managed to drop 5* in peacetime. What our politician should do it to persuade ALL the other NATO nations to down rank as well.
Instead of bumping up perfectly competent flt lt to sqn ldr for comparability get the others to drop down a rank. If that carried on up the line . . .
Now we have a 'high' star count so we can look other air forces eye to eye. Well the US managed to drop 5* in peacetime. What our politician should do it to persuade ALL the other NATO nations to down rank as well.
Instead of bumping up perfectly competent flt lt to sqn ldr for comparability get the others to drop down a rank. If that carried on up the line . . .
Instead of bumping up perfectly competent flt lt to sqn ldr for comparability get the others to drop down a rank. If that carried on up the line . . .
You might get away with it in the current economic climate but as soon as things pick up outside you can guarantee that all your experience will walk.
"What our politician should do it to persuade ALL the other NATO nations to down rank as well."
The politician that manages to acheive that should follow up with delivering peace in the Middle East and trying to turn water into wine
There are a lot of reductions going ahead (I've heard figures suggesting a 20-30% drop in 2*s being put about by credible grown ups in open forums). The issue is more to my mind that while switching off the 2* isn't a major problem, its working out what to do with the rest of the organisation thats left behind that is more of a challenge. I suspect it'll take anothe 18 months or so to deliver the change we all know is inevitable.
My own view - both the RN and RAF will shortly move to one x 4*, two x 3* and the rest at 2*, with a small number of joint posts in the pool to compete for.
The politician that manages to acheive that should follow up with delivering peace in the Middle East and trying to turn water into wine
There are a lot of reductions going ahead (I've heard figures suggesting a 20-30% drop in 2*s being put about by credible grown ups in open forums). The issue is more to my mind that while switching off the 2* isn't a major problem, its working out what to do with the rest of the organisation thats left behind that is more of a challenge. I suspect it'll take anothe 18 months or so to deliver the change we all know is inevitable.
My own view - both the RN and RAF will shortly move to one x 4*, two x 3* and the rest at 2*, with a small number of joint posts in the pool to compete for.
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Sounds fine but you'll have to add more than 9 levels of pay increments or you'll just irritate the competent flt lt who now can't get promoted and will look elsewhere for better compensation package and a job that challenges him/her.
If I weren't to be redundant.
Can't abide chiselers. Never promote those who wish for promotion.
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I could never understand why we needed a Wing Commander to run a Squadron and a Squadron Leader to run a Flight....
Are the officer types so shallow that they need titles rather than fun and money?
Are the officer types so shallow that they need titles rather than fun and money?
Rank equivalency, old chap...
Lt Cols or Cdrs run Sqns in other air forces and so Wg Cdrs in ours. Oh, and the reason why we don't have Lt Cols or Cdrs in the RAF? Because the other 2 Services couldn't stop bickering over what ranks the newly formed RAF should have - so "Boom" Trenchard made them up!
iRaven
Lt Cols or Cdrs run Sqns in other air forces and so Wg Cdrs in ours. Oh, and the reason why we don't have Lt Cols or Cdrs in the RAF? Because the other 2 Services couldn't stop bickering over what ranks the newly formed RAF should have - so "Boom" Trenchard made them up!
iRaven
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British Armed Forces have 467 (ish) Officers of one star or higher.
The US Marine Corps with a greater number of soldiers, ships and aircraft cope with 80.
Even that does not tell the full story.
On my last cruise I sat with a recently retired US Marine Colonel. He estimated that at least ten of their one stars were in non established posts.
That makes us overestablished by around 650%.
The US Marine Corps with a greater number of soldiers, ships and aircraft cope with 80.
Even that does not tell the full story.
On my last cruise I sat with a recently retired US Marine Colonel. He estimated that at least ten of their one stars were in non established posts.
That makes us overestablished by around 650%.
Its the last bastion of civilisation old boy. Promote them and give them a desk job in Abbey Wood so they can't get weeded out during redundancies.
What did you do in the military daddy? Well darling I was deputy FO, SO1 to CoS, 1
Gp.
Do certain elements still attach their rank after retiring - in civvy street, too?
What did you do in the military daddy? Well darling I was deputy FO, SO1 to CoS, 1
Gp.Do certain elements still attach their rank after retiring - in civvy street, too?
The original article also missed the point that you don't need to make 2*'s and above redundant when the job they are doing disappears- They either get a new appointments as a 2*, are promoted and appointed as a 3*, or are put on the relevant retired list in the normal way.
I think there is a scheme ( not redundancy though) which would partly compensate a newly appointed 2+* for a shorter than normal notice to join the retired list because his post has been terminated.
Still be a damn good idea if we got the numbers down dramatically.
N
I think there is a scheme ( not redundancy though) which would partly compensate a newly appointed 2+* for a shorter than normal notice to join the retired list because his post has been terminated.
Still be a damn good idea if we got the numbers down dramatically.
N
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
LCpl as the pongos couldn't understand SAC - with no aircraft.
Flt Lts used to run sqns with only one wg cdr and one sqn ldr. In the RAF the concept of the overborne sqn ldr led to rapid rank inflation and job creation.
In 1968 one sqn ldr might be 1st RO for 50 JO. The following year with sqn ldr leaders as 1st RO for 10-12 each.
When I meant rank pruning I meant across NATO but accept that some micky mouse countries might need air commodore sqn cdrs.
One cruise ship I was on the captain wore the rank of a vice-admiral. The following year I saw he was a rear-admiral! British shipping companied tend to have just one commodore for the whole fleet.
Flt Lts used to run sqns with only one wg cdr and one sqn ldr. In the RAF the concept of the overborne sqn ldr led to rapid rank inflation and job creation.
In 1968 one sqn ldr might be 1st RO for 50 JO. The following year with sqn ldr leaders as 1st RO for 10-12 each.
When I meant rank pruning I meant across NATO but accept that some micky mouse countries might need air commodore sqn cdrs.
One cruise ship I was on the captain wore the rank of a vice-admiral. The following year I saw he was a rear-admiral! British shipping companied tend to have just one commodore for the whole fleet.
I think the comparison with the Marine Corps is potentially misleading. The USMC are only a part of the US military, thus they do not necessarily have to provide the full range of cover that the whole of the DOD does. For example, they may (and I speculate here) rely on disporportionate centre support for issues such as procurement, administration, PR, legal, national policy making, international engagement, retirees, financial scrutiny, etc.
A far better comparison would be with the whole of the US military.
A far better comparison would be with the whole of the US military.
Gentleman Aviator
The original article also missed the point that you don't need to make 2*'s and above redundant when the job they are doing disappears- They either get a new appointments as a 2*, are promoted and appointed as a 3*, or are put on the relevant retired list in the normal way.
Far be it from me to say somethingb that might be construed as in support of multi-stars, but my understanding is that if theer's no job at end of tour - off you go.
And I joined a 150k strong RAF, led by a 4-star Chief..... Now we have a 35k-ish (and heading further south) and a 4-star Chief!!
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And I joined a 150k strong RAF, led by a 4-star Chief..... Now we have a 35k-ish (and heading further south) and a 4-star Chief!!
