How to mount a fast jet ;)
I reckon the predominance of port-side aeroplane entry would stem from cavalry days, seeing as I have it on good authority (remember reading it somewhere...) that being a good horseman augured well for your chances of success as a pilot in the early days.
While on the subject, I'd like to put a complaint into the chief film horse-inclusion officer of Hollywood about the way those seppo cowboys get off their horses - they take their right foot out of the stirrup, swing the leg back over the horse and step down with the left foot still in the stirrup, a good recipe for getting dragged, as any fule kno.
The right way, at least as my old Dad taught me, is to remove both feet from the stirrups, slide the right leg over the horse's bum and slide down the left side with both feet thus well clear of the stirrups.
While on the subject, I'd like to put a complaint into the chief film horse-inclusion officer of Hollywood about the way those seppo cowboys get off their horses - they take their right foot out of the stirrup, swing the leg back over the horse and step down with the left foot still in the stirrup, a good recipe for getting dragged, as any fule kno.
The right way, at least as my old Dad taught me, is to remove both feet from the stirrups, slide the right leg over the horse's bum and slide down the left side with both feet thus well clear of the stirrups.
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Orca,
That's why Ronald McDonald fitted those intake thingies. Rumour has it they were useful for engines but I reckon they were giant steps on which to stand before making the final ascent. Very pleased to say that my 'B' time was spent in warmer climes and didn't need to worry about goonsuits
That's why Ronald McDonald fitted those intake thingies. Rumour has it they were useful for engines but I reckon they were giant steps on which to stand before making the final ascent. Very pleased to say that my 'B' time was spent in warmer climes and didn't need to worry about goonsuits
Victor B1a
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Gnat mounting.
BEagle.
I have never mounted a Gnat from the starboard (right)side.
Consider being taught to ride a horse. Have you ever mounted a steed from the right? I have not.
Wasn't the Vulcan frightening? Big oleo leg right behind that bloody hatch.
The Victor was port side infront of the the Armstrong Whitworth noisy things. Did anyone ever successfully jump out of a Victor?
I had a bang seat up front but did not like the odds for the chaps down the back.
I have never mounted a Gnat from the starboard (right)side.
Consider being taught to ride a horse. Have you ever mounted a steed from the right? I have not.
Wasn't the Vulcan frightening? Big oleo leg right behind that bloody hatch.
The Victor was port side infront of the the Armstrong Whitworth noisy things. Did anyone ever successfully jump out of a Victor?
I had a bang seat up front but did not like the odds for the chaps down the back.
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I always thought it was done that way because the vast majority of pilots 'dress' to the left. Have you ever tried getting your unfeasibly large tackle over the edge from the wrong side?
Probably correct. Cavalry=horses - Royal Flying Corps=still horsey era - then RAF. Easier for a right handed chap to swing his right leg over the side to get in. Old habits die hard.
Just a thought. Don't the brown jobs clamber into their Apaches from the Starboard side? Must be an American affectation.
Just a thought. Don't the brown jobs clamber into their Apaches from the Starboard side? Must be an American affectation.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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I think we should leave the rotating palm trees out of this discussion with their strange predilection for Captain's seating (some silly argument about torque, I recall)!
You basically 'mount' where the access is (makes 'three in a bed' a challenge.....). If Mr XXX put footsteps on the left, that is normally where you get in. If groundcrew put steps on the right ditto. If a side-by-side, one normally uses both.
With 'walk-rounds', the main thing is to remember where you started and finish up there again.
You basically 'mount' where the access is (makes 'three in a bed' a challenge.....). If Mr XXX put footsteps on the left, that is normally where you get in. If groundcrew put steps on the right ditto. If a side-by-side, one normally uses both.
With 'walk-rounds', the main thing is to remember where you started and finish up there again.
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Consultation with a colleague, with whom I instructed at Valley for 2 years, reveals that we got in from the left hand side, in the opinion of our joint but old memories!
To be honest, it was such a long time ago that I'm not actually sure from which side one climbed into the Gnat back in 1975.
Perhaps I'm confusing opening the canopy to do the initial checks before the walkround? Because the canopy handle was certainly on the right.
This photo would seem to indicate that right hand side entry was the norm at one point though:
Perhaps I'm confusing opening the canopy to do the initial checks before the walkround? Because the canopy handle was certainly on the right.
This photo would seem to indicate that right hand side entry was the norm at one point though:
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Horses & Haeroplanes
Some casual observations on various points raised:
1. My beloved Gnat had the Canopy Lock/Unlock handle (internal & external) on the Starboard side; access steps were normally positioned on the Larboard side.
2. The custom of mounting a horse from the left side originates in the fact that a right-handed sword-wearer will find this best, ie sword/scabbard hanging from left hip.
3. Some horses, particularly those operating in mountainous areas, will be trained to accept being mounted from either side, due to the problems posed when mounting on a precarious narrow trail.
4. Arm Out the Window: having been an 'English/Classic' rider from my youth, I learned to ride 'Western' style some years ago (much better IMHO). I got yelled at for dismounting in my customary way, ie feet out of the stirrups first. The 'Western' dismount is indeed as you describe, keeping the foot in the stirrup until the other foot is on the ground. This may originate in the often large bundles which can be secured to the rear of the saddle; one needs to swing the leg up & over same by standing up in the saddle, using the still-stirruped leg. 'Western' horses (often Quarter Horses) are generally smaller than a typical 'English/Classic' mount, where the height of the horse will make keeping a foot in the stirrup during dismount difficult & dangerous; this is not so with the smaller mount. I have never had a problem with the 'Western' dismount.
5. I did, however, have a massive problem when mounting a feisty half-Arabian 'Western' horse; as I threw my spur-equipped right foot over his back, unbeknown to me, he flicked his tail up & my spur became tangled in it. I was looking forward (to ensure correct orientation in the saddle, one should see a pair of ears in the 12 o'clock), & could not understand why I could not get my leg over (a perennial problem....).
As I jerked my right foot about (still attached to his tail), he grew bored with this & took off like a Grand National favourite. So, I have my left foot in the stirrup, my right foot tangled in his tail, and the reins clamped in my left hand against the front of the saddle, which my posterior has yet to be installed in. As he galloped up the paddock at Vne+, I was worried that if I ejected myself, I may end up being dragged under his pounding rear hooves, so I stayed with it. A looming steel fence athwart our path posed a problem which he solved by making a 90' max-rate turn left; I did not participate in this & instead flew over his neck, impacting said fence with some gusto & panache. Hospital food is awful, isn't it?
6. Profound apologies for the most outrageous thread drift; perhaps though, the above may serve as a salutory warning of the dangers of getting one's spurs caught in the rudder whilst mounting one's fast jet from the wrong side?
HB
1. My beloved Gnat had the Canopy Lock/Unlock handle (internal & external) on the Starboard side; access steps were normally positioned on the Larboard side.
2. The custom of mounting a horse from the left side originates in the fact that a right-handed sword-wearer will find this best, ie sword/scabbard hanging from left hip.
3. Some horses, particularly those operating in mountainous areas, will be trained to accept being mounted from either side, due to the problems posed when mounting on a precarious narrow trail.
4. Arm Out the Window: having been an 'English/Classic' rider from my youth, I learned to ride 'Western' style some years ago (much better IMHO). I got yelled at for dismounting in my customary way, ie feet out of the stirrups first. The 'Western' dismount is indeed as you describe, keeping the foot in the stirrup until the other foot is on the ground. This may originate in the often large bundles which can be secured to the rear of the saddle; one needs to swing the leg up & over same by standing up in the saddle, using the still-stirruped leg. 'Western' horses (often Quarter Horses) are generally smaller than a typical 'English/Classic' mount, where the height of the horse will make keeping a foot in the stirrup during dismount difficult & dangerous; this is not so with the smaller mount. I have never had a problem with the 'Western' dismount.
5. I did, however, have a massive problem when mounting a feisty half-Arabian 'Western' horse; as I threw my spur-equipped right foot over his back, unbeknown to me, he flicked his tail up & my spur became tangled in it. I was looking forward (to ensure correct orientation in the saddle, one should see a pair of ears in the 12 o'clock), & could not understand why I could not get my leg over (a perennial problem....).
As I jerked my right foot about (still attached to his tail), he grew bored with this & took off like a Grand National favourite. So, I have my left foot in the stirrup, my right foot tangled in his tail, and the reins clamped in my left hand against the front of the saddle, which my posterior has yet to be installed in. As he galloped up the paddock at Vne+, I was worried that if I ejected myself, I may end up being dragged under his pounding rear hooves, so I stayed with it. A looming steel fence athwart our path posed a problem which he solved by making a 90' max-rate turn left; I did not participate in this & instead flew over his neck, impacting said fence with some gusto & panache. Hospital food is awful, isn't it?
6. Profound apologies for the most outrageous thread drift; perhaps though, the above may serve as a salutory warning of the dangers of getting one's spurs caught in the rudder whilst mounting one's fast jet from the wrong side?
HB
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Good Morning Beagle! I see in the background of your excellent photograph the sort of wheeled platform which I sort of recall as being the normal mode of entry on the left side. In the end it isn't going to matter one way or the other! I survived 800 hours in the back seat without incident, whichever side I got in!
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I seem to recall that the Gnat had a fold-out step in the left Intake outer skin for ease of access to the rear cockpit? Also, was the rear cockpit Blast Screen slightly 'cut away' on the left side for the same reason?
HB
HB
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Spamcanner, the original poster, and others are correct in that you mount your aircraft from the left because that's the side you mount a horse - although as with every rule there are exceptions. Civil aircraft still have entrance doors on the left (that connect with the bridges at airports) and the right side doors are service doors.
As has been said the ability to ride a horse was seen in the early days of aviation as an indicator of flying ability and thus it was seen as normal to enter your aircraft from the left hand side. As aircraft became more sophisticated it made sense to standardize on entry/ exit on the left & refueling & other services on the right so that they didn't interfere with each other.
But as I said, there are always exceptions - Lancaster, Mosquito, B17 amongst others. A number of light aircraft also have the door on the right so as to allow entry/exit without interfering with the person in the pilot-in-command seat.
As has been said the ability to ride a horse was seen in the early days of aviation as an indicator of flying ability and thus it was seen as normal to enter your aircraft from the left hand side. As aircraft became more sophisticated it made sense to standardize on entry/ exit on the left & refueling & other services on the right so that they didn't interfere with each other.
But as I said, there are always exceptions - Lancaster, Mosquito, B17 amongst others. A number of light aircraft also have the door on the right so as to allow entry/exit without interfering with the person in the pilot-in-command seat.
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Thanks Beagle. It was great when the weather was good and a bit of a x-wind to assist the view for back-seat landings! Sometimes it was challenging but where would we be without challenges? In the course of looking for pictures of the "mounting" arrangements I came across this link to aircraft losses and deaths which brought back some less happy memories - Tim Mermagen, Bill Forse and many others
Folland_Gnat
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I thought it always went back to Captains sitting on the left so they put the door on that side so he could see people approaching the aircraft door... the VC10 Tanker still had the left door, just had the failed escape slide in it....
Fighter pilots talking about "mounting" something.....and not one mention of the patently obvious method!
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Not Navy folk, just a PPL/Spotter/Aviation History Enthusiast (i.e I've seen TORA TORA TORA, BoB and Dambusters at least 20 times and the childhood home was about three miles from St Athan) but I believe the Japanese experimented with carriers with the island on the LEFT in WWII. I have a vague memory that two carriers ,one lefty and one righty, were supposed to steam side by side and respective aircraft would take up left or right hand patterns according to their ship's configuration so as not to be a-conflictin' with each other. Or something. I don't know which side one hopped in a Zero though.
Last edited by CatchThePigeon; 27th Jan 2012 at 14:17. Reason: I can't tell my right from my left.
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I suppose that given the default circuit direction is left it makes sense that the island is on the starboard side, so that flyco can be on the inboard face of the superstructure from where Wings can criticise everyone in the entire circuit.
If previous posters are correct then carrier lay out is due to circuit direction, which is due to captain's seat position, which is due to cavalry SOP, which is due to scabbard position, which is due to left handers being 'under represented'.
And with the island on the starboard side you can leave rotary traffic in the starboard wait so VIPs in Flyco don't have to see them, because they came to see jets.
If previous posters are correct then carrier lay out is due to circuit direction, which is due to captain's seat position, which is due to cavalry SOP, which is due to scabbard position, which is due to left handers being 'under represented'.
And with the island on the starboard side you can leave rotary traffic in the starboard wait so VIPs in Flyco don't have to see them, because they came to see jets.