SEAL's 9....Pirates 0
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One part of me can't help wondering................
Last night was the 'State of the Union' speech. This year is a US election year.
Coincidence..............?
Last night was the 'State of the Union' speech. This year is a US election year.
Coincidence..............?
Thread Starter
Trim,
One of my kinfolk is a US Army Captain....Airborne, Ranger, and now accepted for the SF training pipeline as he made it through the initial selection course. First he has to attend a six month long Captain's Career course before he can begin the two year SF training scheme. That means he will have almost three years of training added to that he got during his four years in ROTC, Basic School, Jump School, and Ranger School. Thus far...he has had a one year deployment to the Sandbox with the 101St Airborne.
With the Navy....he would have gone to some sort of Officer Charm school...then straight to BUDS...and if successful...on to the full SEAL course. The specialty training would all be part of the SEAL training instead of having to jump through all the other hoops enroute.
The SEAL's are as successful as they are because of all the intelligence support and operational support they get from other units and branches of the military and civilian intelligence services. They get the training, money, and turn out a very fine product. The other SpecOps units do as well....and in a lot of cases get very little publicity which we cannot say of the SEAL's.
The job our SF Cavalry did in the early days of the Afghanistan War gets very little recognition....and what they accomplished is amazing. The SEALs have had some tragic failures along the way....usually when they were asked to do something they were not suited for and was outside their mission set.
One of my kinfolk is a US Army Captain....Airborne, Ranger, and now accepted for the SF training pipeline as he made it through the initial selection course. First he has to attend a six month long Captain's Career course before he can begin the two year SF training scheme. That means he will have almost three years of training added to that he got during his four years in ROTC, Basic School, Jump School, and Ranger School. Thus far...he has had a one year deployment to the Sandbox with the 101St Airborne.
With the Navy....he would have gone to some sort of Officer Charm school...then straight to BUDS...and if successful...on to the full SEAL course. The specialty training would all be part of the SEAL training instead of having to jump through all the other hoops enroute.
The SEAL's are as successful as they are because of all the intelligence support and operational support they get from other units and branches of the military and civilian intelligence services. They get the training, money, and turn out a very fine product. The other SpecOps units do as well....and in a lot of cases get very little publicity which we cannot say of the SEAL's.
The job our SF Cavalry did in the early days of the Afghanistan War gets very little recognition....and what they accomplished is amazing. The SEALs have had some tragic failures along the way....usually when they were asked to do something they were not suited for and was outside their mission set.
One part of me can't help wondering................
Last night was the 'State of the Union' speech. This year is a US election year.
Coincidence..............?
Last night was the 'State of the Union' speech. This year is a US election year.
Coincidence..............?
SASless
I don't disagree with you that US Army and USMC SF have to go through a huge amount of hooplah to get to their goal.
But that may not be the best route at all.
SF are a strategic force - ie capable of operating independently to change the strategic course of a conflict - that requires more than just above average physical courage and endurance - it also requires above average intellectual ability.
Regular armies (as in US Army, USMC) have entirely different objectives in their training. Recruits are drilled to be a small cog in a huge machine - hence it is actually quite difficult to subsequently retrain them to operate outside of that machine. You allude to that yourself in your description of your kinfolk's training - it takes longer to train him than it does to train a Seal.
My thesis is that it is best to select & train strategic SF from motivated, fit and intellectually high-achieving civilians rather than from a smaller pool that has already been filtered by basic military training. This seems to be the route that the USN Seals have adapted rather succesfully.
But that may not be the best route at all.
SF are a strategic force - ie capable of operating independently to change the strategic course of a conflict - that requires more than just above average physical courage and endurance - it also requires above average intellectual ability.
Regular armies (as in US Army, USMC) have entirely different objectives in their training. Recruits are drilled to be a small cog in a huge machine - hence it is actually quite difficult to subsequently retrain them to operate outside of that machine. You allude to that yourself in your description of your kinfolk's training - it takes longer to train him than it does to train a Seal.
My thesis is that it is best to select & train strategic SF from motivated, fit and intellectually high-achieving civilians rather than from a smaller pool that has already been filtered by basic military training. This seems to be the route that the USN Seals have adapted rather succesfully.
Red On, Green On
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TS - a good mate who joined Chelsea not long before me went to Hereford (after 12 months in the Para Regt having passed the Desmond's Selection) and left as a WO2.
Go figure.
Go figure.
AA - not sure what your point is (other than to self-aggrandise yourself - Simon?).
My thesis is that selection for UK strategic SF could perhaps be open to all - military as well as civilians. It seems to work well for Seals.
My thesis is that selection for UK strategic SF could perhaps be open to all - military as well as civilians. It seems to work well for Seals.
Red On, Green On
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My point was that ex-civvies/STABS can do just as well or better than guys with former regular service. Few make it to WO at Hfd.
Yes, Simon R.
Yes, Simon R.
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El G
Whilst I'm loathe to debate this sort of thing too much on here, SEAL Team 6 did indeed suffer a major loss last year, but to enemy action. Not a crash. It did not wipe out the Team.
The SEAL Teams are structured differently to the smaller UK 'operational' units. They are quite a large formation in SF terms. Not bigger and better, not bigger and worse. Just differently formed.
Minor pick up, not after an argument about it.
Whilst I'm loathe to debate this sort of thing too much on here, SEAL Team 6 did indeed suffer a major loss last year, but to enemy action. Not a crash. It did not wipe out the Team.
The SEAL Teams are structured differently to the smaller UK 'operational' units. They are quite a large formation in SF terms. Not bigger and better, not bigger and worse. Just differently formed.
Minor pick up, not after an argument about it.
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Nice to hear of the rescue but lets not get too carried away with the rambo attitude. It sounds to me more like great intelligence gathering\informants type operation. A few guards all drugged out of their skulls, a quick insertion and an even quicker extraction... (speculation) No casualties and a warning to all those criminals that have chosen their specific life-style.
One isolated house\dwelling and a helo extraction which might also indicate no ground forces left to do any shooting. Would that helo extraction have gone ahead if there were still any nasty people armed with the weaponry that is being thrown down our throats on all the news channels? I think perhaps not.
The Presidential address and the comments made publicly by your President speaks volumes about its planning\implication, as NO WAY would anyone have mentioned this raid 'accidentally'
Excellent news that these hostages have been freed and I think we should now concentrate on the remaining ONE HUNDRED and FIFTY plus remaining souls! I am guessing these murdering thugs that are guarding these people will not be too pleased when they hear about the deaths of their kith and kin!
Congratulations to all involved and my thoughts are with these that are still in the hands of these criminals.
One isolated house\dwelling and a helo extraction which might also indicate no ground forces left to do any shooting. Would that helo extraction have gone ahead if there were still any nasty people armed with the weaponry that is being thrown down our throats on all the news channels? I think perhaps not.
The Presidential address and the comments made publicly by your President speaks volumes about its planning\implication, as NO WAY would anyone have mentioned this raid 'accidentally'
Excellent news that these hostages have been freed and I think we should now concentrate on the remaining ONE HUNDRED and FIFTY plus remaining souls! I am guessing these murdering thugs that are guarding these people will not be too pleased when they hear about the deaths of their kith and kin!
Congratulations to all involved and my thoughts are with these that are still in the hands of these criminals.
Thread Starter
glo....just how much loyalty do you think the Pirates have for one another? First off....they are competitors in the trade are they not...as there are several Tribes and Warlords competing for control of the country (you do keep up on current events in Somalia don't you...). Also....you reckon some of those folks are thinking about the prospects of early retirement should they have to confront some threats to their health ala visits by Western forces SpecOps troops?
Are they taking better measures to deter attacks by those SpecOps forces....certainly...or at least one would think so. They maybe "Skinny's" but they are not stupid people.
Is it not far better to have rescued two....than none?
Does the success of this raid not remind the Pirates/Hostage Takers there is limit to what they can do and get by with....and that there is a line they best not cross for fear of it becoming seen as Terrorism and not simply a business?
If that line gets crossed then it becomes "War" and they know who loses in that eventuality.
Shall there be a loss of life amongst the hostages in the future.....let's pray not but be realistic....there shall always be that risk no matter what we do. That has happened already....remember the four folks on the sailboat?
Are they taking better measures to deter attacks by those SpecOps forces....certainly...or at least one would think so. They maybe "Skinny's" but they are not stupid people.
Is it not far better to have rescued two....than none?
Does the success of this raid not remind the Pirates/Hostage Takers there is limit to what they can do and get by with....and that there is a line they best not cross for fear of it becoming seen as Terrorism and not simply a business?
If that line gets crossed then it becomes "War" and they know who loses in that eventuality.
Shall there be a loss of life amongst the hostages in the future.....let's pray not but be realistic....there shall always be that risk no matter what we do. That has happened already....remember the four folks on the sailboat?
SEAL Team 6 did indeed suffer a major loss last year, but to enemy action. Not a crash.
The media reporting of the loss at the time was very scratchy to say the least.
It is hard to say what was being fed to them of course !!
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El G
Roger that. Understood. Missed the subtle quotation marks.
Obviously the data released should be sketchy. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It was a very sad event with the usual stories of personnel who were deployed in replacement for others at short notice etc etc. Not pleasant and many young families were affected.
A tragic loss of some superior servicemen.
As for the pirates, they're fair game. I do have sympathy for those who are involved due to economic circumstances, such as foreign fishing fleets plundering their waters. But they are legitimate targets for specialist units on hostage rescue missions. I am not endorsing illegal state sponsored execution, but if they are an obstruction or resist...... Well, they are unlikely to succeed in their aims.
Roger that. Understood. Missed the subtle quotation marks.
Obviously the data released should be sketchy. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It was a very sad event with the usual stories of personnel who were deployed in replacement for others at short notice etc etc. Not pleasant and many young families were affected.
A tragic loss of some superior servicemen.
As for the pirates, they're fair game. I do have sympathy for those who are involved due to economic circumstances, such as foreign fishing fleets plundering their waters. But they are legitimate targets for specialist units on hostage rescue missions. I am not endorsing illegal state sponsored execution, but if they are an obstruction or resist...... Well, they are unlikely to succeed in their aims.
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It is noteworthy that in the last ten years or so the USN Seals have established themselves as the pre-eminent US special forces, seemingly the "go-to" choice ahead of US Army or USMC special forces (or even USAF SF for the pedants).
Some reading if it fancies anyone on US covert ops in Africa: The Secret War in Africa - Military Times
