PVR
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
My ex-boss had cause to speak with me, via email, some months after I departed. He asked where all the files were from my PC; apparently the HDD was empty 
I pointed out that the PC he referred to was 6 years old and had been replaced by Dii hence I had not used it and any relevant files would be on Dii.
It just went to prove that the Government wipe algorithms had worked a treat
The Dii files had probably been etherised after I closed my account; I was the control officer after all 
I pointed out that the PC he referred to was 6 years old and had been replaced by Dii hence I had not used it and any relevant files would be on Dii.
It just went to prove that the Government wipe algorithms had worked a treat
The Dii files had probably been etherised after I closed my account; I was the control officer after all
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1. Negotiate an exit date with the poster. Mine was 3 months from when the poster RECEIVED the JPA input, not from when I hit the button. This was non-negotiable for me.
2. Understand that your application has to 'do the rounds' just like a piece of paper. Find out from HR who it goes to. My recollection is OC PSF, Sqn Boss, OC PMS, Poster. Let them know in advance that it's coming and if you have any time considerations for its swift forwading. They should give your request pretty high priority on their 'to do' list. OC PMS may ask you why you're leaving. WARNING: if one them is on leave, your application may not be forwarded for actioning. This left me tearing my hair out for a few days.
3. Hit 'Return' and savour the moment.
2. Understand that your application has to 'do the rounds' just like a piece of paper. Find out from HR who it goes to. My recollection is OC PSF, Sqn Boss, OC PMS, Poster. Let them know in advance that it's coming and if you have any time considerations for its swift forwading. They should give your request pretty high priority on their 'to do' list. OC PMS may ask you why you're leaving. WARNING: if one them is on leave, your application may not be forwarded for actioning. This left me tearing my hair out for a few days.
3. Hit 'Return' and savour the moment.
Losing FP on PVR is a bit of a kick in the slats, but I at least understand roughly what they're getting at. I think the "it's retention pay; you've not been retained so no retention pay" thing is a bit simplistic, but there's some logic to it.
On the other hand, if they post you to a non-flying-related job, and you choose to stick it out, they take it off you then, even though you have been retained. The excuse being that you're not in a job that requires the "specialist skills" that they're paying FP for.
So which is it, MOD? If it's retention pay, fine; take it off me if I PVR, but don't take it off me if you choose to post me into some arb non-flying job. If it's payment for specialist skills, give it to me whenever I'm in a flying job; including one I'm PVRing from!
On the other hand, if they post you to a non-flying-related job, and you choose to stick it out, they take it off you then, even though you have been retained. The excuse being that you're not in a job that requires the "specialist skills" that they're paying FP for.
So which is it, MOD? If it's retention pay, fine; take it off me if I PVR, but don't take it off me if you choose to post me into some arb non-flying job. If it's payment for specialist skills, give it to me whenever I'm in a flying job; including one I'm PVRing from!
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Anyone know where the RAF stands on return of service these days? I heard they had gaffed it entirely because they are trying to get rid of people. Not that I am thinking of leaving whilst inside a trg RofS 
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I believe people are still being held to their RofS. A couple of pilots and a crewman at Odiham PVR'd last year in the middle of all the cut backs and had their PVRs rejected by manning as they had not fulfilled their RofS. The reason was one of cost; ie the RAF getting their monies worth, manning levels did not come into the equation. At least one of the individuals had not signed any paperwork promising to honour the RofS however he was told this is irrelevant as attending and completing a course (OCF, CFS, QHTI etc.) implies acceptance of the T&C.
That said if they have changed their minds recently and not told anyone please let me know ASAP!
That said if they have changed their minds recently and not told anyone please let me know ASAP!
A friend of mine PVR'd from a course mid-way through and has been told he will have to honour the RoS. Does anyone know if this is correct?
I thought RoS only kicked in from the successful completion of a course.
I thought RoS only kicked in from the successful completion of a course.
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Stuff
Current policy is in 2011DIN01-128.
Trg RoS usually commences from the completion of training; however, the requirement is incurred from the course's start date and can be applied at any time irrespective of course outcome.
Chinny Crewman - the individual who hadn't signed any paperword may wish to read sub-para 5e of that DIN.
That said, IIRC the signing of acceptance of Trg RoS for officers is not a legal requirment but policy. It is a requirement for airmen as they have the legal right to give notice (this is different to PVR) enshrined in the RAF Terms of Service Regulations; therefore, it is a legal requirement for them to waive that right (Section 12(1))).
Current policy is in 2011DIN01-128.
Trg RoS usually commences from the completion of training; however, the requirement is incurred from the course's start date and can be applied at any time irrespective of course outcome.
Chinny Crewman - the individual who hadn't signed any paperword may wish to read sub-para 5e of that DIN.
That said, IIRC the signing of acceptance of Trg RoS for officers is not a legal requirment but policy. It is a requirement for airmen as they have the legal right to give notice (this is different to PVR) enshrined in the RAF Terms of Service Regulations; therefore, it is a legal requirement for them to waive that right (Section 12(1))).
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OK, next question: If "a friend" was to PVR halfway through training (which has a 3 year return of service) and wasn't yet productive, what possible point is there in the RAF keeping him in? I thought we were trying to reduce costs and personnel numbers at the moment.
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If only we had some sort of officer, sat behind a desk somewhere, trained in manning issues. We could call him, perhaps, a Manning Desk Officer. Then, if we had questions that fundamentally affected our career we could ring him up and ask him directly, instead of having to rely on anonymous PPruners who have mates who's mates heard a rumor from the bloke down the pub who did National Service in the 50's and thinks he vaguely recalls what it said in King's Regs.
Last edited by sargs; 23rd Mar 2012 at 01:35.
Champagne anyone...?
I'd put that suggestion in if I were you, it sounds like a great idea. 
Sadly there seemed to be no one suitably equipped or inclined to answer the questions that fundamentally affected my career so I just gaffed it all off and left.
Sadly there seemed to be no one suitably equipped or inclined to answer the questions that fundamentally affected my career so I just gaffed it all off and left.
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You mean he gave you answers you didn't want to hear? There are many good reasons to leave the RAF; having a poor perception of your Desky isn't really one of them.
Last edited by sargs; 23rd Mar 2012 at 01:58.
Champagne anyone...?
Not quite sure how you read that into my post but bless your condescension nonetheless. So from what you've said I take it that those considering PVR should a) go and speak to their Desky and then b) take everything he says as career enhancing gospel, cast all doubt aside and thence proceed, per ardua, ad astra? Good advice. 
For what it's worth my PVR had zero to do with what did or didn't come out of the Desky's mouth, I merely opined in my previous flippant post that what did come out weren't quite the pearls of wisdom you seem to suggesting.
For what it's worth my PVR had zero to do with what did or didn't come out of the Desky's mouth, I merely opined in my previous flippant post that what did come out weren't quite the pearls of wisdom you seem to suggesting.
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No condescension meant or implied.
Yes, of course everybody considering PVR should speak to their Desky, why wouldn't you consider speaking to the man appointed to manage your career? I wouldn't ever suggest taking anybody's advice as gospel, but nevertheless he should give you information worth considering.
The point of my original post is why seek career advice from unknown anonymous Internet lurkers? There are people just a telephone call or email away who actually know what they're talking about.
Yes, of course everybody considering PVR should speak to their Desky, why wouldn't you consider speaking to the man appointed to manage your career? I wouldn't ever suggest taking anybody's advice as gospel, but nevertheless he should give you information worth considering.
The point of my original post is why seek career advice from unknown anonymous Internet lurkers? There are people just a telephone call or email away who actually know what they're talking about.
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Sargs,
You are right, however be very wary about taking career advice over RoS etc over the 'phone. Even from the God-that-is-the-desky. The desky might not know every finest detail, sometimes those micro details can be painful.
There is plenty in print in JSPs etc, and that is what the RAF will hold you to, not some verbal agreement made by a previous desky who may be long gone.
There are some very helpful Terms of Service people who can give you the exact low-down on what you're really signed in for.
Also double and triple check with the pensions lot too!
However if there is anything that could be contentious, get the other party to send an email and print it out.
You are right, however be very wary about taking career advice over RoS etc over the 'phone. Even from the God-that-is-the-desky. The desky might not know every finest detail, sometimes those micro details can be painful.
There is plenty in print in JSPs etc, and that is what the RAF will hold you to, not some verbal agreement made by a previous desky who may be long gone.
There are some very helpful Terms of Service people who can give you the exact low-down on what you're really signed in for.
Also double and triple check with the pensions lot too!
However if there is anything that could be contentious, get the other party to send an email and print it out.
I concur. I was offered (and accepted) a years' Fellowship vice ACSC and advised by the Desk Officer that it had the same weighting. Unfortunately it didn't, and even though I had an email to that effect, the system still regarded me as a 'Mainstream' officer, 'cos I hadn't gone to Swindon Polytech. Mind you, I also got a proper Masters' from a prestigeous university.
You are right, however be very wary about taking career advice over RoS etc over the 'phone. Even from the God-that-is-the-desky. The desky might not know every finest detail, sometimes those micro details can be painful.
"Ok", I said, I will accept only if I go to Tornados. "Yes", said the desk officer (over the phone), but you lose the chance of 44/22 option. WTF !!
I should have challenged that, but I didn't, as I was really into leaving at 38 mode anyway.So the moral of this tale...
- Regrets? Probably not, but I have often thought about it (as I was only "gash shag" aircrew, and not "personnel savvy"), and a shiny jet would have been fun, even though you couldn't fly very far from base !!
- But primarily, don't take advice over the phone - get it in writing!
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Sargs
Yes, if only we did have that it would be good. Unfortunately we don’t. A typical desk officer receives basic induction into the mechanics of the manning process. However, they do not have the training in or experience of the vast amount of personnel policies and procedures that are in place (often spread across numerous policy documents, JSPs, DINs, APs, Staff Instructions etc). Once in post they are incredibly busy and generally don't have the time for self-study to become experts in all things 'personnel' before they move back into the mainstream for their branch. They are -in the main- not Personnel specialists.
On the other hand, there are some on here who do know about these policies (indeed, there are some on here that have been involved in the drafting of these policies) that can help steer people in the right direction. I agree that action based on rumour (whether that be on here or in the crew room) is generally ill-judged; however, you will see that several that post give clear direction on where the policy can be found.
Whenurhappy - isn't the University of London (through KCL) considered to be a 'prestigious university'?
If only we had some sort of officer, sat behind a desk somewhere, trained in manning issues.
On the other hand, there are some on here who do know about these policies (indeed, there are some on here that have been involved in the drafting of these policies) that can help steer people in the right direction. I agree that action based on rumour (whether that be on here or in the crew room) is generally ill-judged; however, you will see that several that post give clear direction on where the policy can be found.
Whenurhappy - isn't the University of London (through KCL) considered to be a 'prestigious university'?