The new Australian Defence Force
Evertonian
That's exactly what the Swiss have been doing for decades, Buster.
That's exactly what the Swiss have been doing for decades, Buster.
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A unified ADF and political correctness.
FB; elaborating a bit re your post #5.
The Australian Defence Force was created in 1974 as a thinly-veiled unified force (similar to the Canadian experiment). Navy, Army, Air Force remain as nominally separate identities with respective Service Chiefs, although the overall force is dominated by Army and virtually centrally administered by public servants of 3 separate ministries/departments.
Previously, the more independent armed forces were properly subject to direct political oversight; but post-1974, that morphed into Public Service control with subsequent prodigious growth of a dysfunctional Defence bureaucracy which propagates increasingly rampant political correctness.
Pre-ADF, I recall visits by joint parliamentary committees and politicians of both major political parties mentioning over beers that we had better make the most of mess life because it was not going to prevail much longer. What gets missed in debate re that aspect is that most military bases then had on-base and nearby married quarter accommodation so messes more or less substituted for local clubs providing valuable interfaces for the mutual support of families when members were absent on duty.
The emphasis on military tradition that once prevailed strongly in messes and elsewhere has since been deliberately diluted with numerous public utterances from politicians and bureaucrats degrading this aspect. Tradition was really the glue that bound organisations together as effective fighting forces.
In Australia, pride in the military uniform has diminished. While the 3 Services have differing ceremonial dress and once all had working dress that was quite presentable in public, it is now trendy for everybody to wander around and travel in sloppy clown suits (my wife calls them pyjamas) looking more like species of lizards – same gear also seems to appeal to hippies! Camouflage clothing designs are mostly not well-suited to operating environs and it is interesting that the Israeli military have not seen need for harlequin dress.
The girls did a grand job in roles for which they had special talents (e.g. GCI, nursing, etcetera) and so-called sexist behaviour toward women did not then seem to be the problem that is now perceived. Perhaps the clamour for equal opportunity by the feminist push has created the new set of problems and the addition of female crew on warships for example is really just asking for trouble.
Political correctness is having far more widespread adverse effects on the military than is generally recognised.
The Australian Defence Force was created in 1974 as a thinly-veiled unified force (similar to the Canadian experiment). Navy, Army, Air Force remain as nominally separate identities with respective Service Chiefs, although the overall force is dominated by Army and virtually centrally administered by public servants of 3 separate ministries/departments.
Previously, the more independent armed forces were properly subject to direct political oversight; but post-1974, that morphed into Public Service control with subsequent prodigious growth of a dysfunctional Defence bureaucracy which propagates increasingly rampant political correctness.
Pre-ADF, I recall visits by joint parliamentary committees and politicians of both major political parties mentioning over beers that we had better make the most of mess life because it was not going to prevail much longer. What gets missed in debate re that aspect is that most military bases then had on-base and nearby married quarter accommodation so messes more or less substituted for local clubs providing valuable interfaces for the mutual support of families when members were absent on duty.
The emphasis on military tradition that once prevailed strongly in messes and elsewhere has since been deliberately diluted with numerous public utterances from politicians and bureaucrats degrading this aspect. Tradition was really the glue that bound organisations together as effective fighting forces.
In Australia, pride in the military uniform has diminished. While the 3 Services have differing ceremonial dress and once all had working dress that was quite presentable in public, it is now trendy for everybody to wander around and travel in sloppy clown suits (my wife calls them pyjamas) looking more like species of lizards – same gear also seems to appeal to hippies! Camouflage clothing designs are mostly not well-suited to operating environs and it is interesting that the Israeli military have not seen need for harlequin dress.
The girls did a grand job in roles for which they had special talents (e.g. GCI, nursing, etcetera) and so-called sexist behaviour toward women did not then seem to be the problem that is now perceived. Perhaps the clamour for equal opportunity by the feminist push has created the new set of problems and the addition of female crew on warships for example is really just asking for trouble.
Political correctness is having far more widespread adverse effects on the military than is generally recognised.
Last edited by Bushranger 71; 10th Jan 2012 at 01:15. Reason: Readability
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AOTW,
After 7 1/2 years they couldn't wait to get rid of me!
OP,
They would really have to be desperate if they wanted to promote a cranky old b*stard like me! I don't think "the system" can handle "old school" command styles anyway!
After 7 1/2 years they couldn't wait to get rid of me!
OP,
They would really have to be desperate if they wanted to promote a cranky old b*stard like me! I don't think "the system" can handle "old school" command styles anyway!
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Bushranger 71
Generally agree.
Wrt your comments on Defence pubic serpents. while ADF members attend for duty in uniform (whether tree look a like or otherwise), many of the aforesaid civilians turn up (certainly at Campbell Park offices in the ACT) for "work" dressed in attire more appropriate to a sunday bbq than for employment in a joint military civil environment.
I'm sure you could tap every fourth Defence civilian employee on the shoulder in Canberra, and show them the door, without any significant impact on Defence capability.
Generally agree.
Wrt your comments on Defence pubic serpents. while ADF members attend for duty in uniform (whether tree look a like or otherwise), many of the aforesaid civilians turn up (certainly at Campbell Park offices in the ACT) for "work" dressed in attire more appropriate to a sunday bbq than for employment in a joint military civil environment.
I'm sure you could tap every fourth Defence civilian employee on the shoulder in Canberra, and show them the door, without any significant impact on Defence capability.
This “new” PC environment that is supposed to make everything so much better and more equitable is really starting to smack of 1984 the George Orwell version. May well work when everyone comes on board which means you have no enemies anyway, so why the need for an ADF.
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I know there'll be many who'll howl me down for saying it, but I can't help but wonder how long it would take for certain (shall we say 'right at the coal face/meat grinder') units to go back to (shall we say 'pre-PC') SOPs if we were ever to find ourselves in a really 'backs to the wall' situation a la September 1942 some time in the future?
When the (totally predictable, almost as if scripted) 'shock! horror!' responses came flooding in from all quarters (including senior US and NATO military officers) after the four US marines pissing on dead Taliban was posted online, I couldn't help but think that armies once (and not too long ago) quite officially demonised their enemies so as to de-humanise them so that young soldiers would not hesitate to kill them.
Not today - at least for 'enlightened' Western armies. Today, (after we kill 'em), we must treat them with respect.
While in no way condoning what the Marines did, my main opprobrium is directed to the *** idiot who (a) videoed it and then (b) posted it on line. (WTF was he thinking???)
The sad fact is, the type of young men best suited to front line combat units are probably not the type of young man most of us would want our daughters to bring home with her flashing an engagement ring. Jack Nicholson's USMC Colonel's speech in 'A Few Good Men' also comes to mind.
I just watched a re-run of Speilberg's 'The Pacific' which showed US Marines ripping gold fillings out of the teeth of (in one case, a NOT dead) Japanese with their bayonets, and I'm reminded of an old Australian digger telling me years ago about his rather eventful war in New Guinea. He said: "Don't believe all that *** about the Japs never surrendering. Lots of Japs surrendered." (Unsaid, he heavily inferred that not too many survived the 'surrender experience'.) He went on to say: "They (the Japanese) were utter bastards, and we won because we were even bigger bastards than they were." Not a comfortable comment for many, I suspect. As I said, not too many of us want to know what Jack Nicholson's USMC colonel character spoke of him and his men do 'on the city wall' to preserve the soft lives we've all come to expect within the safety of those 'city walls'.
When the (totally predictable, almost as if scripted) 'shock! horror!' responses came flooding in from all quarters (including senior US and NATO military officers) after the four US marines pissing on dead Taliban was posted online, I couldn't help but think that armies once (and not too long ago) quite officially demonised their enemies so as to de-humanise them so that young soldiers would not hesitate to kill them.
Not today - at least for 'enlightened' Western armies. Today, (after we kill 'em), we must treat them with respect.
While in no way condoning what the Marines did, my main opprobrium is directed to the *** idiot who (a) videoed it and then (b) posted it on line. (WTF was he thinking???)
The sad fact is, the type of young men best suited to front line combat units are probably not the type of young man most of us would want our daughters to bring home with her flashing an engagement ring. Jack Nicholson's USMC Colonel's speech in 'A Few Good Men' also comes to mind.
I just watched a re-run of Speilberg's 'The Pacific' which showed US Marines ripping gold fillings out of the teeth of (in one case, a NOT dead) Japanese with their bayonets, and I'm reminded of an old Australian digger telling me years ago about his rather eventful war in New Guinea. He said: "Don't believe all that *** about the Japs never surrendering. Lots of Japs surrendered." (Unsaid, he heavily inferred that not too many survived the 'surrender experience'.) He went on to say: "They (the Japanese) were utter bastards, and we won because we were even bigger bastards than they were." Not a comfortable comment for many, I suspect. As I said, not too many of us want to know what Jack Nicholson's USMC colonel character spoke of him and his men do 'on the city wall' to preserve the soft lives we've all come to expect within the safety of those 'city walls'.
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(Unsaid, he heavily inferred that not too many survived the 'surrender experience'.)
Hear Hear! Best post re this incident I`ve read.
Tabloid journalism celebrates war-up to a point.
These guys are at the sharp end , Doing the job to give us our western lifestyle. THE SITUATION IS KILL OR BE KILLED. Its not a film.
Get Real, the four "miscreants" survived. Hopefully, being snipers they will add to the "bag" and help keep us safe.War is War not a football match.
Javelinfaw9
Tabloid journalism celebrates war-up to a point.
These guys are at the sharp end , Doing the job to give us our western lifestyle. THE SITUATION IS KILL OR BE KILLED. Its not a film.
Get Real, the four "miscreants" survived. Hopefully, being snipers they will add to the "bag" and help keep us safe.War is War not a football match.
Javelinfaw9
Andu, surprised if there are that many dissenters.
I believe it was Winnie (Churchill for those younger ones) that said “ one of life’s most exhilarating experiences is to be shot at and missed”. He also stated how ironic it was for ones enemy to try to kill you, miss and then wish to surrender.
War is not a bed of roses. One way to handle the horror of what one is exposed to is black humour and as already stated dehumanizing the enemy to maintain one’s sanity or part of.
I believe it was Winnie (Churchill for those younger ones) that said “ one of life’s most exhilarating experiences is to be shot at and missed”. He also stated how ironic it was for ones enemy to try to kill you, miss and then wish to surrender.
War is not a bed of roses. One way to handle the horror of what one is exposed to is black humour and as already stated dehumanizing the enemy to maintain one’s sanity or part of.
