More delays for the F-35
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FA 18 E (or F, if we can find some old navs somewhere) ticks all the boxes. Not a stop-gap buy, the jet could fill ALL our current fast jet roles well into the future. Stealth is expensive and sits on an exponential expense scale - diminishing returns and all that. The cutting edge technology, the same.
We already have a cadre of pilots becoming qualified on it also.
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With the proposed US cut backs and our own carriers not coming on line for at least 7 years why not just go the whole hog and either buy or borrow a s/h carrier complete with an airwing to 'tide' us over until the F35 is in full production and our own super doper flat tops have been launched, gone through their workup and had all the niggly bits fixed.
Cull a few more Admirals and their hangers on and we may even be able to afford two.
Tis only a thought...
Cull a few more Admirals and their hangers on and we may even be able to afford two.
Tis only a thought...
Originally Posted by Justanopinion
everything we need minus the "first day of the war" capability
The Americans send appologies for being late for the last two world wars, but promise to make up by being really early for the next one!!!
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Oh, YES!!! I could handle flying that.
Dear Mr Cameron,
Please save a fortune on the defence budget by consolidating all our fast jet operations into one type that really can do everything you will require of us. Think of the benefits. The MoD would only need one FJ logistics stream, you could finally pull out of the Eurofighter millstone, people would stop complaining about you thowing away our carrier air and we could buy shares in Boeing.
The GR4s will easily see you though untill we can take delivery of F18Fs and you would be able to move your Tornado crews (that you value so dearly) directly across to this type. We could then do it all for you. Probably even more than you know.
I'd be very happy to advise you further on this matter. Please feel free to contact me.
Yours as always,
Mach Two.
Dear Mr Cameron,
Please save a fortune on the defence budget by consolidating all our fast jet operations into one type that really can do everything you will require of us. Think of the benefits. The MoD would only need one FJ logistics stream, you could finally pull out of the Eurofighter millstone, people would stop complaining about you thowing away our carrier air and we could buy shares in Boeing.
The GR4s will easily see you though untill we can take delivery of F18Fs and you would be able to move your Tornado crews (that you value so dearly) directly across to this type. We could then do it all for you. Probably even more than you know.
I'd be very happy to advise you further on this matter. Please feel free to contact me.
Yours as always,
Mach Two.
is Rafale that much better at 'first day of war' than SuperHornet?
SH isn't Dave C, but SH with Sky Shadow ALCM, ALARM and the door kicked-in with a stealthy Tommahawk barrage is, imv, going to cope with any ADE that the UK is going to have to cope with that the US's B-2/F-35/F-22's haven't already done the dirty deed on. more importantly, its actually available and the price difference means that we'd be able to get a decent weapons package fitted - Meteor, ALARM, SS ALCM, Harpoon(?), EPW IV, Brimstone.
imagine a single platform FJ fleet, all multi-role, full A2A and A2G capability, and all carrier capable....
SH isn't Dave C, but SH with Sky Shadow ALCM, ALARM and the door kicked-in with a stealthy Tommahawk barrage is, imv, going to cope with any ADE that the UK is going to have to cope with that the US's B-2/F-35/F-22's haven't already done the dirty deed on. more importantly, its actually available and the price difference means that we'd be able to get a decent weapons package fitted - Meteor, ALARM, SS ALCM, Harpoon(?), EPW IV, Brimstone.
imagine a single platform FJ fleet, all multi-role, full A2A and A2G capability, and all carrier capable....
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I'm not entirely convinced by the argument that the Super Hornet is the solution to our requirements beyond the mid 2020s but I certainly think it will be easily the best aircraft for the carrier strike role until then!
Hornet E or F?
Single-seat for A-A, two-seat for A-G: there's a reason the fleet of F15E derivatives around the world is still growing!
The UK's move to single-seat A-G is largely based on 2 assumptions:
A) A trend away from "man-in-the-loop" weapons: e.g. the gradual replacement of laser-guided weapons with GPS-guided ones
B) Succesful development of sensor fusion: the idea that multiple inputs, (e.g. datalink, radar, targeting pod, helmet-mounted cueing system) can all be brought together to produce one easily-assimilated picture for a heavily-tasked solo pilot
Unfortunately A) does not apply in all instances - witness the heavy use of the laser-guided DMS Brimstone during both HERRICK and ELLAMY. This is a weapon that needs aiming to within a couple of feet accuracy, which against moving targets takes 100% of the sensor operator's capacity - not ideal for a solo pilot. GPS jamming and moving targets mean that there will always be a need for designation into the future. As for B) - we'll see. To my understanding, it has not yet developed anywhere near as far as hoped. I think the UK has taken quite a risk by going single-seat only post-GR4 (although all will be aware that there are quite enough pilots around to fill back seats once the last WSOs have gone!)
The UK's move to single-seat A-G is largely based on 2 assumptions:
A) A trend away from "man-in-the-loop" weapons: e.g. the gradual replacement of laser-guided weapons with GPS-guided ones
B) Succesful development of sensor fusion: the idea that multiple inputs, (e.g. datalink, radar, targeting pod, helmet-mounted cueing system) can all be brought together to produce one easily-assimilated picture for a heavily-tasked solo pilot
Unfortunately A) does not apply in all instances - witness the heavy use of the laser-guided DMS Brimstone during both HERRICK and ELLAMY. This is a weapon that needs aiming to within a couple of feet accuracy, which against moving targets takes 100% of the sensor operator's capacity - not ideal for a solo pilot. GPS jamming and moving targets mean that there will always be a need for designation into the future. As for B) - we'll see. To my understanding, it has not yet developed anywhere near as far as hoped. I think the UK has taken quite a risk by going single-seat only post-GR4 (although all will be aware that there are quite enough pilots around to fill back seats once the last WSOs have gone!)
Ah, the single seat vs two seat debate again. This could run and run. Most of the single seat guys will vote for, well yo guess, and vice versa. Flown both, loved both, in a shooting war give me the second brain and kit operator any day. Just saying.
No responses accepted from anyone that's only ever flown single seat.
No responses accepted from anyone that's only ever flown single seat.
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The E and the F are exactly the same aircraft in terms of sensors, kit etc and the F can be operated by pilot only ( although never is operationally). The biggest advantage the F has is in FAC A and that is about all. Theoretically 2 heads should be better than one but I think you'll find E squadrons disputing that
Courtney - Bullseye! Single-seat is fantastic for chest-puffing in peacetime, but when the sh*t starts flying, the more brains, eyes and ears the merrier!
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Is the option of pilot and co-pilot available vs Pilot and WSO? The rear cockpit has all the same systems as the front, does it not?
Yes indeed, and that is exactly how the UK would have to man it once the last WSOs have moved on.... we have now closed our WSO training system! Nowt wrong with putting 2 pilots in together; in fact you could argue it would make for better co-operation as each would instinctively know what the other was supposed to be doing and when, helping each to know when to talk and when to shut up.... this can be a problem with some of the chopped-early-in-flying-training WSO brethren... 
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Theoretically 2 heads should be better than one but I think you'll find E squadrons disputing that
I think that was one of my points.
I think that was one of my points.
I'm fully prepared to admit that the single-seat aircraft can perform as well as the two-seat aircraft in Iraq- or Afghan-style scenarios where threat avoidance is a simple matter of staying above the MANPAD envelope. The point is how well do the 2 aircraft perform under "full war" conditions? Since there hasn't been a proper "full war" scenario since either variant of the Super Hornet entered service we can't know - unless anyone has observed them on RED FLAG? I would still rather go up against the massed hordes with someone thinking about the target whilst I'm concentrating on missile-dodging
Yes indeed, and that is exactly how the UK would have to man it once the last WSOs have moved on.... we have now closed our WSO training system!
Reasonably sure that the Observer pipeline is still there......
Reasonably sure that the Observer pipeline is still there......
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And perhaps the Observer pathway could be augmented by buying places on the USN NFO classes for the relevant aircraft type ( or types - if we eventually found a crock of gold at the end of the rainbow and went down the Growler and Hawkeye routes as well).
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Was the re-paved part of the flight deck, special heat protection? Seems like an eye-watering amount of money to service a capability that has only ever been used in combat once and would have been better filled by conventional carrier aircraft...
The US marines have never used that capability in combat...
The US marines have never used that capability in combat...