Spitting on a Soldier's Grave
What happened is a disgrace and should be redressed however late it is now.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but the danger is that everyone ends up apologising for things they never had any control over in the 1st place.
Has UK apologised for allowing Nazi's take Sudentenland and infamous piece of paper ? etc etc.
After a while the catch all of "lets apologise for everything" ends up being a mere sop with little feeling behind it but its a nice media event.
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Were they British
An aspect of the disloyalty, to Ireland or otherwise, of those soldiers joining the British Army which seems to have gone uncommented;
Many of those absconding in the early 1940s would have been born in about 1920 and thus would have been British by birth
This status earned all the Irish people special rights, my mother among them, allowing them to reside and work within Britain, although they did need a special identity card. Such rights were denied those born elswhere in Europe
Since they were Bitish by birth and had the special rights many would think they should defend the country granting them. Certainly if they wished to retain those special rights after the war, as my Mum did, they would think evidence wartime service might become a requirement and so it would be prudent to serve in some way and be able to prove it. What would be clearer than military service
Many of those absconding in the early 1940s would have been born in about 1920 and thus would have been British by birth
This status earned all the Irish people special rights, my mother among them, allowing them to reside and work within Britain, although they did need a special identity card. Such rights were denied those born elswhere in Europe
Since they were Bitish by birth and had the special rights many would think they should defend the country granting them. Certainly if they wished to retain those special rights after the war, as my Mum did, they would think evidence wartime service might become a requirement and so it would be prudent to serve in some way and be able to prove it. What would be clearer than military service
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Mixed messages here....
Will Ireland forgive its soldiers of the King?
The Irish government has finally announced that it is giving active consideration to exonerating the thousands of Irish army deserters who joined the British Army during the Second World War.........
Sinn Fein to back pardons for 'deserters' who fought for Britain in World War II
A CAMPAIGN in Ireland to pardon 5000 men who deserted from the country's forces to fight for Britain in World War II is likely to be backed by Sinn Fein, the Republican party that sought Nazi support against the British.
It has emerged that Sinn Fein is ready to add its voice to calls in the Dail, the Irish Parliament, for a pardon. During the war, Irish Republicans said that they would welcome German invaders as "friends and liberators".
Johnathan O'Brien TD, Sinn Fein's justice spokesman, said that the party's position was still under review, but party officials spoke of the pardon as a matter of natural justice. "Of course these men should be pardoned," said a Sinn Fein spokesman. "These are old men who fought in a world war against fascism. They fought for a just cause. I don't imagine anyone would claim they shouldn't have the same rights as anybody else."
Military chiefs 'baffled' by BBC story about Army deserters
IRISH Army deserters who fought with the British during World War II are not currently being considered for a pardon.
The BBC had claimed yesterday that the Irish Government "would take action" on the matter in the coming months. But a statement from the Department of Defence contradicted this, saying Minister Alan Shatter was baffled by the story.
The minister has instead sought the advice of the Attorney General amid the campaign for the pardoning of an estimated 5,000 Irish soldiers who deserted the Irish Army to fight with the Allies against Hitler.
But a final decision on the matter is not expected soon...........
Will Ireland forgive its soldiers of the King?
The Irish government has finally announced that it is giving active consideration to exonerating the thousands of Irish army deserters who joined the British Army during the Second World War.........
Sinn Fein to back pardons for 'deserters' who fought for Britain in World War II
A CAMPAIGN in Ireland to pardon 5000 men who deserted from the country's forces to fight for Britain in World War II is likely to be backed by Sinn Fein, the Republican party that sought Nazi support against the British.
It has emerged that Sinn Fein is ready to add its voice to calls in the Dail, the Irish Parliament, for a pardon. During the war, Irish Republicans said that they would welcome German invaders as "friends and liberators".
Johnathan O'Brien TD, Sinn Fein's justice spokesman, said that the party's position was still under review, but party officials spoke of the pardon as a matter of natural justice. "Of course these men should be pardoned," said a Sinn Fein spokesman. "These are old men who fought in a world war against fascism. They fought for a just cause. I don't imagine anyone would claim they shouldn't have the same rights as anybody else."
Military chiefs 'baffled' by BBC story about Army deserters
IRISH Army deserters who fought with the British during World War II are not currently being considered for a pardon.
The BBC had claimed yesterday that the Irish Government "would take action" on the matter in the coming months. But a statement from the Department of Defence contradicted this, saying Minister Alan Shatter was baffled by the story.
The minister has instead sought the advice of the Attorney General amid the campaign for the pardoning of an estimated 5,000 Irish soldiers who deserted the Irish Army to fight with the Allies against Hitler.
But a final decision on the matter is not expected soon...........
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Just as well that Sinn Fein didn't have to welcome the Germans as "Friends and Liberators" if their treatment of the Ukrainians who welcomed them on a similar basis is anything to go by.
I also suspect that the Waffen SS methods of putting down any attempts at self determination may have been a little more harsh than the British ones. At least the executions after the Easter uprising were not done summarily by hanging hundreds from lamp posts in the street.
I also suspect that the Waffen SS methods of putting down any attempts at self determination may have been a little more harsh than the British ones. At least the executions after the Easter uprising were not done summarily by hanging hundreds from lamp posts in the street.
I wonder what the Sinn Fein position would have been if this subject had been raised 20 years ago?
Personally I welcome their response and am all for anything which improves the official relationship between the UK and the Republic of Ireland.
Personally I welcome their response and am all for anything which improves the official relationship between the UK and the Republic of Ireland.
It's interesting that Ireland is condemned for 'supporting' Hitler against the British, yet the Finns don't come in for the same treatment for doing the same in their struggle against Russia.
Both were small nations trying to cast off the shadow of a larger and overbearing neighbour by employing the philosphy of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'.
Both were small nations trying to cast off the shadow of a larger and overbearing neighbour by employing the philosphy of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'.
It would be inaccurate to portray Ireland's position during WWII as 'supporting Hitler'. If anything, the Irish position was supportive of the Allies.
Allied aircraft were authorised to overfly Irish airspace, all be it in a restricted way. Allied air crew who were forced to land in Ireland were 'assisted' to the border with Northern Ireland. There were a number of Luftwaffe bombing raids on towns and cities in Ireland, including the raid of the night of 31st May 1941 against Dublin, known as the North Strand bombings, which claimed the lives of over 30 civilians and injured nearly 100 more. It is suggested that the raid was in retaliation for fire tenders from Dublin, Dundalk and Drogheda assisting the fire service of Belfast (in Northern Ireland) and surrounding areas following the "Belfast Blitz" of April '41.
The Irish government protested to the Nazi's over both the Belfast and Dublin raids.
JAS
Allied aircraft were authorised to overfly Irish airspace, all be it in a restricted way. Allied air crew who were forced to land in Ireland were 'assisted' to the border with Northern Ireland. There were a number of Luftwaffe bombing raids on towns and cities in Ireland, including the raid of the night of 31st May 1941 against Dublin, known as the North Strand bombings, which claimed the lives of over 30 civilians and injured nearly 100 more. It is suggested that the raid was in retaliation for fire tenders from Dublin, Dundalk and Drogheda assisting the fire service of Belfast (in Northern Ireland) and surrounding areas following the "Belfast Blitz" of April '41.
The Irish government protested to the Nazi's over both the Belfast and Dublin raids.
JAS
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Most of the Irish children, who were consigned to Ireland's Industrial Schools' System, on leaving found sanctuary in the UK - not just the children of those Irish 'deserters' who found themselves incarcerated in those abusive places. It should be noted that in the 1930s in Ireland there were more children in the Industrial Schools than were in care in the whole of the UK. These were the places, along with the Magdalen Asylums, that the Irish State used for those who it deemed were the outcasts of society; the people who didn't conform to the Roman Catholic ideology of those times.
The book Spitting on a Soldier's Grave is a very important book in every regard.
The book Spitting on a Soldier's Grave is a very important book in every regard.
It's interesting that Ireland is condemned for 'supporting' Hitler against the British,
FFS at least if you are going to comment on a thread like this please do some research.
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After a while the catch all of "lets apologise for everything" ends up being a mere sop with little feeling behind it but its a nice media event
I think that one can draw a difference between a country apologising for historical wrongs, where both oppressors and victims are long dead, and the matter under discussion where many of those who were wronged are still alive. Apologising for the slave trade, Polynesian islanders apologising for eating missionaries etc is just silly - this isn't.
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Diserters between Alies(?)
Thread creep, but I met a Frenchman (now deceased) who jumped ship from the french navy and joined the british RN in WW2 . Had he accepted a lift to the UK and joined deGaulle he would be a hero now, unfortunately by joining the British navy he remained a deserter and the only income he had was a British Navy pension.
Since when did Ireland support Hitler ?
FFS at least if you are going to comment on a thread like this please do some research.
FFS at least if you are going to comment on a thread like this please do some research.
I qualified my use of the word support by wrapping it single quotes to show that, although they were no fans of the British, support is probably not the right term to articulate their feelings towards the Germans.
Apologies if this escaped you, FFS.
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I heard this story, first hand, from someone who had been an observer on Sunderland flying boats in Northern Ireland, during WW2.
They were based on Lough Earne and, as has been mentioned in other threads, the aircraft were permitted to fly due West from there, crossing about 5 nm of the Republic, rather than have to fly NE for some 50 nm before turning W to avoid it. This was known, in some parts, as the 'Secret Air Corridor,' and saved about 150 nm each way to/from their Atlantic patrols.
My colleague said that, being fed up with rationing in NI, his crew decided to nip over the border, find an Irish pub, and have a few glasses of whisky (or should that be whiskey). So, one evening, they borrowed a 3 ton truck, all piled aboard and drove across the (completely unmanned) border. They drove to the west coast, and headed south, stopping at the first pub they saw.
They climbed out of the truck, all in uniform of course, went into the bar and ordered a round of drinks. As they waited, they looked behind the bar, through into the 'snug' and there, also in uniform, was a German U Boat crew! Both sides raised their glasses to each other, drank up and his crew then turned tail to rerurn, somewhat shocked, back to NI.
The view from their limited persepective at the time was that Ireland was allowing German vessels to berth.
They were based on Lough Earne and, as has been mentioned in other threads, the aircraft were permitted to fly due West from there, crossing about 5 nm of the Republic, rather than have to fly NE for some 50 nm before turning W to avoid it. This was known, in some parts, as the 'Secret Air Corridor,' and saved about 150 nm each way to/from their Atlantic patrols.
My colleague said that, being fed up with rationing in NI, his crew decided to nip over the border, find an Irish pub, and have a few glasses of whisky (or should that be whiskey). So, one evening, they borrowed a 3 ton truck, all piled aboard and drove across the (completely unmanned) border. They drove to the west coast, and headed south, stopping at the first pub they saw.
They climbed out of the truck, all in uniform of course, went into the bar and ordered a round of drinks. As they waited, they looked behind the bar, through into the 'snug' and there, also in uniform, was a German U Boat crew! Both sides raised their glasses to each other, drank up and his crew then turned tail to rerurn, somewhat shocked, back to NI.
The view from their limited persepective at the time was that Ireland was allowing German vessels to berth.
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Probably British/Polish/Dutch Naval personnel from Derry having a bit of fun at RAF expense.
Besides the U boat that dropped survivors in Kerry early on in the war, there is not one recorded incident of a U boat in Irish waters, except as figment of the imagination of the Daily Express/Mail.
All reports of U boats were radioed to Dublin, on a frequency which was made know to the British Admiralty
Besides the U boat that dropped survivors in Kerry early on in the war, there is not one recorded incident of a U boat in Irish waters, except as figment of the imagination of the Daily Express/Mail.
All reports of U boats were radioed to Dublin, on a frequency which was made know to the British Admiralty
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Besides the U boat that dropped survivors in Kerry early on in the war, there is not one recorded incident of a U boat in Irish waters, except as figment of the imagination of the Daily Express/Mail.
Also
During this patrol, U-38 was able to land Walter Simon, a Nazi agent, at Dingle Bay in Ireland on June 12. Not realising that the passenger services of the Tralee and Dingle Light Railway had been closed fourteen months earlier, he asked when the next train to Dublin was. He was arrested and interned in the Curragh Camp for the duration of the war.
Racedo - The implication of statements mentioned previously in this thread about the Irish government expressing its condolences to the German people suggest that the Irish supported Hitler during the war.
I qualified my use of the word support by wrapping it single quotes to show that, although they were no fans of the British, support is probably not the right term to articulate their feelings towards the Germans.
Apologies if this escaped you, FFS.
I qualified my use of the word support by wrapping it single quotes to show that, although they were no fans of the British, support is probably not the right term to articulate their feelings towards the Germans.
Apologies if this escaped you, FFS.
My colleague said that, being fed up with rationing in NI, his crew decided to nip over the border, find an Irish pub, and have a few glasses of whisky (or should that be whiskey). So, one evening, they borrowed a 3 ton truck, all piled aboard and drove across the (completely unmanned) border. They drove to the west coast, and headed south, stopping at the first pub they saw.
Ireland is not short of pubs, the idea that someone would take a truck and wander miles and miles passing towns and pubs so they could just get into the same pub as a phantom U Boat crew is one of those stories which not even the great fiction writers would believe.
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Racedo
Mmmmm.......Eamon De Valera went to personally commiserate with the Nazi representative in Eire, Dr Eduard Hempel on the death of their beloved Fuhrer in 1945 for gods sake when the war was nearly over. Not exactly a supportive thing to do for the Taoiseach was it ?
Did he go to Washington ? Or the US Embassy representative ?
Being a neutral nation the also expressed their condolences to the US Embassy on the death of FDR.............or did you not realise this ?
Did he go to Washington ? Or the US Embassy representative ?