Is it wise for the RAAF to operate C-17's without paper pubs?

[back end o' the bus]

Just wondering in the climate of Air Worthiness, is it wise for the ADF to operate the C-17 without any paper publications, given that the US and UK still do so. It appears a brave move to operate relying soley on a laptop between 3 crew members, especially in the event of a systems failure, when the AC will be flying, the Co will be communicating and the LOADM partially ineffective and unable to access multiple pages of associated drills using the ADTD. What would happen in the event of an electrical failure/laptop failure... given that at least access to an old fashioned paper publication would and could save the whole crew and pax from a possible severe flight hazard....just saying?

[Shell Management]

It would be fine if a safety case had been produced.

[LFFC]

It would be fine if a safety case had been produced ... that explains how the risks have been mitigated and it's safe to do so.

I'm sure that such a case will have been approved by the MAA before the system is implemented.

[cessnapete]

back end o' the bus

I think you will find that more than one laptop will be required per a/c to allow for failure.
Large american airlines are now issuing standard IPads to flight crew as they have been approved by the FAA for flightdeck use (max two operating per flightdeck) EASA will probably catch up in a year or two.
These will replace aircraft tech manuals, and paper airways, and let down charts.
Jepp FD and TC Apps, brilliant!!

[Dr Schlong]

So what chance of the RAF becoming more tech savvy? There must be some big savings to be made by using iPads or else the civvies wouldn't be doing it.
The cost in printing, mailing, sorting and carrying paper docs must be more than the cost of a handful of iPads per frame and a Jeppeson contract...

[Green Flash]

I beleive that British Apaches are using iPads allready?

[NutLoose]

By the time the RAF hardened an IPad like the one I am using to type this, it would be the size of a large suitcase and probably weigh about 10 stone.

BTW the first manuals for the Chinook were produced with yellow pages, as we worked through tasks and reported back errors they were replaced with white ones until we had an accurate manual.

[piggybank]

Certainly on the helicopters I have worked on, the CDs and PDF form of maintenance manuals are a winner. Paper manuals weigh a lot and get damaged easily. A laptop and a few CDs weight little. Speed of finding the item you want through the search function in PDF is very fast. Its probably also a lot cheaper than the paper versions as well. Updated CDs can come out every few months.

[Alber Ratman]

If you have ever had to replace 2000 individual pages for an AMM revision, PDF is the best thing since sliced bread.. Still print individual tasks out of them out mind as skydrol would kill any laptop, however much it was hardened!

[air pig]

Was on a Lear jet about a month ago using electronic flIght bag as a back up, co pilot turns it on and lo and behold, the date came up as 2002 therefore onto the sat phone for the admin password from ops.

Would a C17 crew in some situations have time to obtain the information.

Happy Christmas to everyone and those in dusty hostile places keep safe and come home soon.

[Smurf_au]

While the crews may carry individual memory sticks with the latest DTOS issue, I think you'll find they also take a crate of hardcopy TOs away with them - for exactly the reasons everyone has discussed already. The ADTD is not an EFB.

[George211]

Several years ago I was given a brief on how the RAN had saved several tons weight by making all the documentation on the Collins class submarines electronic. I presume that electronic documentation is a defence wide initiative and must have been successful with the Antipodean Dark Blue to now be available for C-17s.

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by cessnapete

. . . issuing standard IPads to flight crew as they have been approved by the FAA for flightdeck use (max two operating per flightdeck)

Two max or two min?

If the go/no go value be 2 then 3 would appear a prudent number and not a prohbited one.

Just curious.

[Uncle Ginsters]

Havent seen the details of the RAAF e-pubs system but a lot of work is being done in the UK to reduce the volume of paper on a wide variety of platforms. It is the future, we just need to take some guard before diving in headlong. Our plans are based on 3 iPads per jet (one per driver and a spare); the cost is negated within a few short moths by the reduced 'cost-to-carry' of the 40kg or so of pubs.

EFB is a slightly deeper issue but not that far off either. Personally, I haven't looked in the doc box or at a paper en-route chart for a while...and that's just using my humble self-procured iPhone 4...it could (and should) be done brilliantly with a small amount of Service support.

The next step should then be cloud servers with all Unclass pubs, hot poop, FCIF, charts, TAPs etc so users can be in date anywhere in the world where there's connectivity...Or even spend sme money and provide a secure system...

Merry Crimbles.

[Hueymeister]

Am currently trying (with the aid of many others) to sort this for the AT/AAR fleets...watch this space....

[tucumseh]

When electronic pubs were introduced in MoD (mid 90s) the general principle was that legacy aircraft would retain paper. One of the major reasons was MoD would have to supply up to date paper pubs to the company contracted to do the conversion, validation and verification. As AMSO had, as a matter of policy, ceased updating pubs in 1991, MoD would be in automatic default, so rather than pay to update they didn't go electronic.

[Q-RTF-X]

Bottom of the line is it’s inevitable it will emerge in the RAF in some form or other. The process might be somewhat constipated but, ultimately, it will be delivered.

[A and C]

A few years back in an airline I did few sums following the insistance by the cabin crew managment that ALL ! the cabin crew carried a copy of the SEP manual.

The annual cost to the airline of having the extra five books on the aircraft was 18500Kg of fuel (enough to take a 737-800 to Sharm).

You dont have to be very bright to see the economic advantages of having all the books (about 50kg in an airliner) replaced by three iPads, and that is just the fuel savings that can be made, internet updates take seconds rather than employing someone to update paper manuals and get the latest info into the field quickly rather than having to wait for a paper manual set to return to base.

I cant see how any operator be they military of civil would not save money by moving all the manuals to an electronic device like an iPad.

[Hueymeister]

You'd be surprised how small the fuel saving it means for us. The main benefit is the reduction in printing costs, circa £300k p.a.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

I know that's the line Wallop are taking. There was an article in Flight recently that, among other things, focused on that.

Instructors are the only personnel allowed to take their iPads into the aircraft for a training sortie, where they can call up data about unfamiliar landing sites, calculate changes to the Squirrel's centre of gravity, or check on the planned activities for a sortie. The device has also been trialled on the ground as a moving map. According to Rickers, perceived equipment shortcomings with the iPad are being disproven by its use. Concerns over battery life are negated by a combined 20h capacity if the same equipment was carried by both members of a two-person crew. Standards and procedures would also be in place in the unlikely event of a double failure. The use of iTunes to load data means all documents must be unclassified, but by potentially using the UK's secure Defence Information Infrastructure this could be overcome.

Should a device be misplaced, lost or stolen, a course co-ordinator can use a 'Find My iPhone' app to locate and call it, or permanently wipe all of its data while retaining the ability to track it. Once recovered, it can be reconfigured within around 5min.

Early feedback from the students has been overwhelmingly positive. "We are struggling now to find things that it can't do," says Rickers. The cost advantage is also clear, he adds: "The iPad costs £400, so from the second year we would be looking at a 100% saving."

linky to the full article IN FOCUS: British Army fights to influence helicopter training choices