BAE 146-200 - UOR for Two
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RAF to fly second-hand BAe 146s in Afghanistan
I see the RAF are looking to buy 2 more Bae 146 for ops in Afghanistan. But weren't 2 sold of to the Philipines and Indonesia?
ZD696 & ZE702 a CC1 & CC2
I see the RAF are looking to buy 2 more Bae 146 for ops in Afghanistan. But weren't 2 sold of to the Philipines and Indonesia?
ZD696 & ZE702 a CC1 & CC2
On the face of it, it may seem a little short sighted getting rid of ZE702, but the 'new' aircraft are a larger capacity aircraft with a different configuration doing a different job. (CC2s being -100 aircraft)
Champagne anyone...?
I still think the RAF would be better served by just spending the money on C130 spares and manning the Herc Eng Line properly. Oh, and actually putting some high level thought into the sensible/effective use of theatre lift.
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I still think the RAF would be better served by just spending the money on C130 spares and manning the Herc Eng Line properly.
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I'm naturally confident that the aircraft will be fitted with the appropriate DAS ...
But being 'old school' I certainly wouldn't feel as confident boarding as in-theatre pax on a 146 as I would a C-130. I recall there being some disquiet about system redundancy (compared to the Ks) when the Js were introduced about ten years ago (unfounded I'm sure)... Now, will the 146 have such sufficient redundancy? ESF?
After XV179 there were many questions asked by MPs about whether the MoD were skimping on ac protection due to 'resource reasons' ... the demand was made then that the MoD provide evidence to demonstrate that this is not the case
The UK Deployment to Afghanistan: Fifth Report of Session 2005-06; Report ... - Great Britain: Parliament: House of Commons: Defence Committee - Google Books
Be interesting to see how this develops.
But being 'old school' I certainly wouldn't feel as confident boarding as in-theatre pax on a 146 as I would a C-130. I recall there being some disquiet about system redundancy (compared to the Ks) when the Js were introduced about ten years ago (unfounded I'm sure)... Now, will the 146 have such sufficient redundancy? ESF?
After XV179 there were many questions asked by MPs about whether the MoD were skimping on ac protection due to 'resource reasons' ... the demand was made then that the MoD provide evidence to demonstrate that this is not the case
The UK Deployment to Afghanistan: Fifth Report of Session 2005-06; Report ... - Great Britain: Parliament: House of Commons: Defence Committee - Google Books
Be interesting to see how this develops.
The 146 has good system redundancy', the electrics support the hydraulics and the hydraulics support the electrics. The design dates back to the 1960s' and presumably complies with the then BCARs'.
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If this weren't so tragic it'd be laughable.
oh, hang on. Thats what the rest of the world is doing to us.
God help us, we are proper shafted. I realise it is too much for someone to fall on his sword, actually own up to making such a balls up that we need to do this, go cap in hand to buy some used cabs.
whats next - armoured vehicles from the scrappy??
Guns from the enemy??
In fact - would that not be cheaper? don't fight em, buy em out....
oh, hang on. Thats what the rest of the world is doing to us.
God help us, we are proper shafted. I realise it is too much for someone to fall on his sword, actually own up to making such a balls up that we need to do this, go cap in hand to buy some used cabs.
whats next - armoured vehicles from the scrappy??
Guns from the enemy??
In fact - would that not be cheaper? don't fight em, buy em out....
cornish-stormrider,
What on earth is your problem? Additional assets being acquired to address an operational need. You whinge if we don't have them and whinge when we do go and get them.
Why on earth is ANYONE laughing at this? Almost every Air force on the face of the planet occasionally purchases second hand aircraft and equipment, this is no different.
Odd...
What on earth is your problem? Additional assets being acquired to address an operational need. You whinge if we don't have them and whinge when we do go and get them.
Why on earth is ANYONE laughing at this? Almost every Air force on the face of the planet occasionally purchases second hand aircraft and equipment, this is no different.
Odd...
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cornish-stormrider,
What on earth is your problem? Additional assets being acquired to address an operational need. You whinge if we don't have them and whinge when we do go and get them.
Why on earth is ANYONE laughing at this? Almost every Air force on the face of the planet occasionally purchases second hand aircraft and equipment, this is no different.
Odd...
What on earth is your problem? Additional assets being acquired to address an operational need. You whinge if we don't have them and whinge when we do go and get them.
Why on earth is ANYONE laughing at this? Almost every Air force on the face of the planet occasionally purchases second hand aircraft and equipment, this is no different.
Odd...
pr00ne, I'm not sure of any history going on between you two but...
The forecast paucity of Tac AT was plane (oops) for all to see when I was at Strike back when it was still called Strike...the retirement of the K fleet required the J to fill the capability gap (circa 2012 - 2016 back then) of its niche customers before A400m is declared operational.
It's a sorry state of affairs to firstly create a capability gap; and then to simply stand around staring at it whilst we kick imaginary stones around the mouth of the chasm in front of us...
The navy and the army have both suffered in similar ways with some of their asset acquisitions/terminations.
We never seem to learn though, as one other poster said in a previous thread - the Tristars were a temporary Strat AT stop-gap in 1986...so temporary they're still in service now!
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Proone,
The implicit point is that had things not been so mismanaged in the first place, the requirement would already have been satisfied using in-service resources. In this case, either a shedload more C130 or A400M already in service.
Not acknowledging this is similar to the Israeli-Palestinian issue. The Palestinians were "done out of" their land. When the Israelis acknowledge the wrongs done to the Palestinians in the 1940s to create their state, then things might improve.
You haven't considered a career in Politics, have you?
The implicit point is that had things not been so mismanaged in the first place, the requirement would already have been satisfied using in-service resources. In this case, either a shedload more C130 or A400M already in service.
Not acknowledging this is similar to the Israeli-Palestinian issue. The Palestinians were "done out of" their land. When the Israelis acknowledge the wrongs done to the Palestinians in the 1940s to create their state, then things might improve.
You haven't considered a career in Politics, have you?
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URGENT OR? Looks who is updating them! 
BAE to modify used 146-200 transports for Royal Air Force
BAE Systems is to modify two used BAe 146 transports for the UK Ministry of Defence under an urgent operational requirement deal to support operations in Afghanistan.
"The C-17 and CS Project Team intends to place a contract with BAE Systems (Operations) for the upgrade of two second-hand civil BAe 146-200 quick change aircraft," the MoD said on 11 February. The deal will include the design, installation, test and certification of modifications required to allow the passenger type to enter military service, it added. These will include the installation of defensive aids system equipment to meet the UK's theatre-entry standard for operations in Afghanistan.
"The C-17 and CS Project Team intends to place a contract with BAE Systems (Operations) for the upgrade of two second-hand civil BAe 146-200 quick change aircraft," the MoD said on 11 February. The deal will include the design, installation, test and certification of modifications required to allow the passenger type to enter military service, it added. These will include the installation of defensive aids system equipment to meet the UK's theatre-entry standard for operations in Afghanistan.
BAE to modify used 146-200 transports for Royal Air Force
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Wow - I mean I wasn't expecting that. Did I pi** in your Steam Iron Proone?
What I was trying to say, badly some might say, was that ever since I was a boy (and way before) we have drawn down, gone short, made do, bodged, gone above and beyond.......
We go so far that now they have to run out and buy a couple of second handers.
If any private company ran like this they'd long since have gone to the wall....
Why does no-one do anything about it? I know we need to take a joke but sheesh.
The RAF's corporate message might as well be.......
In fact, I think we ought to have a morale thread - I'll start one.
What I was trying to say, badly some might say, was that ever since I was a boy (and way before) we have drawn down, gone short, made do, bodged, gone above and beyond.......
We go so far that now they have to run out and buy a couple of second handers.
If any private company ran like this they'd long since have gone to the wall....
Why does no-one do anything about it? I know we need to take a joke but sheesh.
The RAF's corporate message might as well be.......
In fact, I think we ought to have a morale thread - I'll start one.
Champagne anyone...?
Interesting that "we" can find the money to scrape together a couple of theatre hacks for senior officers and visiting politicians yet struggle to find it to get the C130J fleet back on it's feet.
I have absolutely no problem with having "decent" jets to move our hierarchy around in but one does have to question their priorities when our TacAT fleet is so shagged that it's easier/cheaper to sack off crews than it is to fix the aircraft. I smell some low quality wisdom that is hoping the J will just about struggle on at minimal expense until the A400 arrives. I would also like to take this opportunity to predict yet another MoD sponsored royal balls up when this epic bit of strategic thought turns out to be horse****. Again.
C-S: Despite pr00ne being a dreadful old North London socialist he is quite correct. The infrastructure already exists to support to the 146 as it is already in service. A couple of second hand jets is infinitely cheaper than taking on a new type. It is also, it would seem, cheaper than C130 spares....
I have absolutely no problem with having "decent" jets to move our hierarchy around in but one does have to question their priorities when our TacAT fleet is so shagged that it's easier/cheaper to sack off crews than it is to fix the aircraft. I smell some low quality wisdom that is hoping the J will just about struggle on at minimal expense until the A400 arrives. I would also like to take this opportunity to predict yet another MoD sponsored royal balls up when this epic bit of strategic thought turns out to be horse****. Again.
C-S: Despite pr00ne being a dreadful old North London socialist he is quite correct. The infrastructure already exists to support to the 146 as it is already in service. A couple of second hand jets is infinitely cheaper than taking on a new type. It is also, it would seem, cheaper than C130 spares....
Also...
Private companies do make a profit from regulary importing/exporting aircraft (757's in my experience) every 6 months to make the best use of cyclic travel patterns.
The RAF has a history of buying second-hand aircraft - VC10 and Tristar to name but two. And the RAF has been known to sell/rent/loan its aircraft out - Italian F3s.
The purchase of two low-value but useable freight and passenger capable aircraft for short term use is entirely reasonable and properly economic sense.
If they are successfully used, I can see no resaon why the RAF wouldnt buy more 146/RJ aircraft to fill some transport gaps til their stretched contracts come to fruition.
It's all been done before (but 'they' then kept the short-term buys for dozens of years! Bucc's)
Private companies do make a profit from regulary importing/exporting aircraft (757's in my experience) every 6 months to make the best use of cyclic travel patterns.
The RAF has a history of buying second-hand aircraft - VC10 and Tristar to name but two. And the RAF has been known to sell/rent/loan its aircraft out - Italian F3s.
The purchase of two low-value but useable freight and passenger capable aircraft for short term use is entirely reasonable and properly economic sense.
If they are successfully used, I can see no resaon why the RAF wouldnt buy more 146/RJ aircraft to fill some transport gaps til their stretched contracts come to fruition.
It's all been done before (but 'they' then kept the short-term buys for dozens of years! Bucc's)
Gents
The first "new" BAe 146-200 was noted fully painted in RAF markings in a hanagr at Lelystad airport this weekend. Its a former TNT aircraft
(OO-TAY) and should become ZE708.
Hunty
The first "new" BAe 146-200 was noted fully painted in RAF markings in a hanagr at Lelystad airport this weekend. Its a former TNT aircraft
(OO-TAY) and should become ZE708.
Hunty
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