Aircrewman Exodus
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Aircrewman Exodus
As the RAF continues to string its RW crews along with no announcements over Puma 2 and Merlin transition how long until the crews start to flee? With no reengagement, no promotion, no PAS, no job security and no crossover options the future looks bleak! Oh and pensions are now looking shaky! The RAF was viewed by many as a career, the unfortunate reality is now its becoming a job!
Anyone else fancy being a 22 year time served unqualified jobseeker?
Anyone else fancy being a 22 year time served unqualified jobseeker?
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A couple of points:
Promotion was not as bad as some predicted it would be this year. It is still possible to signed on as long as your not a waster, PAS granted is very thin on the ground but still possible.
The Puma 2 LEP is not dead and buried yet, I'm still optimistic. More chinooks on the way, A400M, clearly life is not brilliant but in comparison with some it could be worse!
Most of the switched on crewman I know have spent 22 years getting qualified whether it be civil licences or business degrees etc to ensure they do have marketable skills on the outside.
But it is clear from your post you prefer the doom and gloom outlook on life!
Promotion was not as bad as some predicted it would be this year. It is still possible to signed on as long as your not a waster, PAS granted is very thin on the ground but still possible.
The Puma 2 LEP is not dead and buried yet, I'm still optimistic. More chinooks on the way, A400M, clearly life is not brilliant but in comparison with some it could be worse!
Most of the switched on crewman I know have spent 22 years getting qualified whether it be civil licences or business degrees etc to ensure they do have marketable skills on the outside.
But it is clear from your post you prefer the doom and gloom outlook on life!
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How about the unfortunate group either in their reengagement window who were all keen to pursue a full military career but are unlikely to be reengaged? Commands idea of an "easy leaver"!
Furthermore a significantly smaller order of CH47's and a massive back log on the FW side of the house waiting to fill A400M / Voyager slots may indicate not so many options there.
It may be sound like doom and gloom however it is perhaps a realistic outlook.
The NCA branch, and I refer to all of the trades, is not a happy place.
Furthermore a significantly smaller order of CH47's and a massive back log on the FW side of the house waiting to fill A400M / Voyager slots may indicate not so many options there.
It may be sound like doom and gloom however it is perhaps a realistic outlook.
The NCA branch, and I refer to all of the trades, is not a happy place.
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Just a minor correction to your first post. The future of Puma 2 is not in the hands of the RAF and hence they are not stringing anyone along. I agree with your assessment though. The longer this goes on, the more resentment will build.
Graf said:
"The RAF was viewed by many as a career, the unfortunate reality is now its becoming a job!"
That may be the case for today's growbags, but not for ground crew - for many of whom it became a job in 1997!
"The RAF was viewed by many as a career, the unfortunate reality is now its becoming a job!"
That may be the case for today's growbags, but not for ground crew - for many of whom it became a job in 1997!
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Picture "rosey" well of course it's not but I don't recall saying it was in my post. The original poster claimed that promotion, re-engagement and PAS was "nil" thats not true, it's still out there for people who work hard and deserve it!
The RAF "stringing" people along? Really or do you not just think that there are many jobs/ types and trades in limbo and until various PR are decided then that's the way it is. Well done your a skilled crewman but what makes you different?
Yes the future sucks, yes I really do wish life was better, yes I wish we had more chinooks, the merlin and puma had a long term future in the RAF but just tell me how many crewmen were made redundant in tranche 1?
The RAF "stringing" people along? Really or do you not just think that there are many jobs/ types and trades in limbo and until various PR are decided then that's the way it is. Well done your a skilled crewman but what makes you different?
Yes the future sucks, yes I really do wish life was better, yes I wish we had more chinooks, the merlin and puma had a long term future in the RAF but just tell me how many crewmen were made redundant in tranche 1?
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My first rebut is in regards to crewman redundancies on tranche 1. To the best of my knowledge there was 0. I respond with how many AEOps were deployed on operations at that time? Within a generic branch surely redundancies should be role specific? With no Nimrods make all those crews redundant. Likewise if Merlin or Puma goes make those crews redundant. So on and so forth. Otherwise the option is continue as we are to clog up our training pipeline with crossovers to the point ab initios end up with anything up to 2 to 3 year holds leaving a significant gap to hit in the future. Perhaps the younger generation can hang on long enough to see a large FRI in 7 years or so! 
Secondly regarding the perception the Air Force is stringing people along.... Rumours on the shop floor suggest decisions have been made regarding Puma 2 and Merlin. Yet the powers that be refuse to disclose the state of play. The cynic in me suggests that telling crews their job is ending imminently would end in a distinct shift in their work effort. Tell them there might still be hope and they will keep working hard?????
Secondly regarding the perception the Air Force is stringing people along.... Rumours on the shop floor suggest decisions have been made regarding Puma 2 and Merlin. Yet the powers that be refuse to disclose the state of play. The cynic in me suggests that telling crews their job is ending imminently would end in a distinct shift in their work effort. Tell them there might still be hope and they will keep working hard?????
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Graf, ref the AEOps, as they were in old money, there were probably more than you think deployed on ops. If you take into account all the ops jobs, the R1, E3D, Sentinel and the King Air thing, it all adds up. Yes the majority were on the good old MR2, and they took the hit for that, however much I think it was a stupid decision.
I think it would be crazy to dissolve our SH, or is it now BH, fleets. I can assure you that the AEOps, remembering that you have some on the BH and SAR cabs, have the utmost respect and admiration for what crewmen do, but AEOps do have a future, albeit in limited numbers compared to previously.
I think it would be crazy to dissolve our SH, or is it now BH, fleets. I can assure you that the AEOps, remembering that you have some on the BH and SAR cabs, have the utmost respect and admiration for what crewmen do, but AEOps do have a future, albeit in limited numbers compared to previously.
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Gear down
We still have a medical branch - employ doctors
We still have an ATC service - employ air traffickers
We still feed our people - employ chefs
We have a very small AE requirement - don't employ AEOps
Common sense applied. Wind your neck in... SON!
We still have an ATC service - employ air traffickers
We still feed our people - employ chefs
We have a very small AE requirement - don't employ AEOps
Common sense applied. Wind your neck in... SON!
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Gear Down
I'm a big fan of old crusty time promoted heroes giving those in a slightly different generation the benefit of their wisdom, however:
I'm afraid as a degree educated member of NCA I'm past comics and well read in textbooks and other such educational material (for the mentally challenged they are the grown up books)
I struggle with using the big boy toilet sometimes but my aim is improving, I shall endeavour to keep my potty handy in case I require some remedial training.
If anything it is perhaps yourself who needs re-educated reference some basic life skills - such as reading, listening, manners and considering the opinions of others.
Furthermore I don't have an axe to grind with AEOp's. In fact my best man was employed in the role. He used to talk a little of his work over a beer or 2. Alas the thread has been somewhat taken off subject due to your working of tangents.
But on behalf of all I would like to say a heartfelt thank you on your willingness to abstain from any further deluded and rude posts.
That is all.
I'm afraid as a degree educated member of NCA I'm past comics and well read in textbooks and other such educational material (for the mentally challenged they are the grown up books)
I struggle with using the big boy toilet sometimes but my aim is improving, I shall endeavour to keep my potty handy in case I require some remedial training.
If anything it is perhaps yourself who needs re-educated reference some basic life skills - such as reading, listening, manners and considering the opinions of others.
Furthermore I don't have an axe to grind with AEOp's. In fact my best man was employed in the role. He used to talk a little of his work over a beer or 2. Alas the thread has been somewhat taken off subject due to your working of tangents.
But on behalf of all I would like to say a heartfelt thank you on your willingness to abstain from any further deluded and rude posts.
That is all.
Last edited by graf; 7th Dec 2011 at 21:07.
Based on the feedback from the most recent WSOp Exec Conf, I think none of the NCA cadre is safe. But the sting will probably come in Tranche 3 or even 4 when the various platforms have gone or exchanged with the dark blue. I had figures quoted to me of between 120-130% manning at the current rate by 2015, so something will have to give!
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as a degree educated member of NCA
who needs reeducated reference some basic life skills
Given that the aim of the Labour party when in government was that 50% of all youths would go on to earn degrees, and that currently only 50% of children leave school with 5 GCSEs at grade C or above, one could argue that all having achieved a degree these days proves is that you have got 5 or more good GCSEs....!!
Can I take it from comments on this and other threads, that the concept that WSOps were all of one trade, merely undertaking specific role training to be a crewman, FW loadmaster, etc, has been in practice kicked into touch - even if it has not been formally recognised/announced as such.
For example, generally speaking it wasn't WSOps across the board that were made redundant, it was AEOps without an aircraft to fly....
Can I take it from comments on this and other threads, that the concept that WSOps were all of one trade, merely undertaking specific role training to be a crewman, FW loadmaster, etc, has been in practice kicked into touch - even if it has not been formally recognised/announced as such.
For example, generally speaking it wasn't WSOps across the board that were made redundant, it was AEOps without an aircraft to fly....