Whatever happened to the 4-ship formation?
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Whatever happened to the 4-ship formation?
A few years ago it was more common to see a 4-ship rather than a singleton or pair of fast jets.
But now I can’t recall seeing more than a pair at low level in many a year.
Surely there is more to it than lack of airframes?
But now I can’t recall seeing more than a pair at low level in many a year.
Surely there is more to it than lack of airframes?
IF 4-ships were needed, they would be flown. Tactics and the requirements have changed...this is no longer the Cold war so 4-ships penetrating the IGB at low-level in defensive formation are not as necessary. What is necessary is training new crews in CAS for current ops. Once your op cycle is complete, then the other aspects of your capability can be practiced.
I flew a 4-ship recently. Have another one planned this week.
I flew a 4-ship recently. Have another one planned this week.
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Jam and Jockey have it. it all comes down to hours and op requirements. IMHO it's a skill we're losing and it's a good way of stretching the youngsters. But times change and so must we.
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Frankly, Typerated, the whole fly pro is thinner than it was a few years ago. But we train for different missions. That said, M2 makes a good point. Once skills are lost it's hard to get them back if we ever need them again. Anyway, 4-ships do still happen, they're just not the main trg focus.
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That was pretty impressive, all 3 keeping everything together.
We'll see these Jet packs in use with the SEALS in the not too distant future.
We'll see these Jet packs in use with the SEALS in the not too distant future.
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4 has to have advantages over 2 in terms of ACM surely? Next threats have to be Iran or proxy with China, so would have thought 4 ship would be coming back to the fore? Lets face it, we are on the wind down for Herrick, we might be ace at cas, but its a skillset that in the post stan environment that will be once forgotten.
Or did I just say jehovah?
Or did I just say jehovah?
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I suppose the world has moved on from low-level penetration and dropping dumb bombs as the standard way of doing business.
Who would have thought that when the Tornado was entering service.
Who would have thought that when the Tornado was entering service.
Very good,
except we recovered to 2 different bases and no-one landed min fuel ("I learned about big fuel reserves from that."). I think the point being made by others earlier was that:
1 We may be doing 2 ship CAS now, but the future (e.g. China, or a single big strike required against a nascent nuclear power ) might require big formations
2 If you don't practice these things, the skills die.
3 Wars tend to happen at inconvenient times and in awkward places, with little time for practice and even less time for regenerating dead skills.
I wonder whether we are doing the "other stuff" often enough to keep at least a core of aircrews at least familiar with such procedures. People shooting at you is no time to be reinventing the wheel.
except we recovered to 2 different bases and no-one landed min fuel ("I learned about big fuel reserves from that."). I think the point being made by others earlier was that:
1 We may be doing 2 ship CAS now, but the future (e.g. China, or a single big strike required against a nascent nuclear power ) might require big formations
2 If you don't practice these things, the skills die.
3 Wars tend to happen at inconvenient times and in awkward places, with little time for practice and even less time for regenerating dead skills.
I wonder whether we are doing the "other stuff" often enough to keep at least a core of aircrews at least familiar with such procedures. People shooting at you is no time to be reinventing the wheel.
To all intents and purposes there's no such thing as an 8 ship or 16 ship. It resolves into units of four and as soon as things get messy they virtually operate autonomously. The difficult bit is the planning, deconfliction and taxy out - after that it all goes to a ball of chalk anyway!