Valiant B1 WP 213, Movement history needed
Thread Starter
Valiant B1 WP 213, Movement history needed
Mods, please move this if not correct forum.
I have recently aquired a couple of rare Colour slides of Valiant B1 "WP 213" in service 1955-1965.
Taken over Nairobi Airport I guess maybe late 50s early 60s.
They are original Kodak slides but no date stamp on the mounts.
I would very much like to know when the Photographs were taken and the circumstances.
I am in contact with Brooklands who have no info. on this Aircrafts movement history outside the UK.
Plus in touch with an historian and awaiting a reply re possible detailed movement history.
I know its awhile ago now but has anyone any information about this aircrafts
overseas deployments etc.
Maybe Aircrew /Ground crew who may have been involved with WP 213 during her life span 1955-1965 can help?
The only references I can find are with
Squadrons
138, then 49? (Formed from 138 Sqdn.), 18 (Photo of WP-213 with 18 Sqdn. on the web.) 199 Sqdn. C flight aircraft formed 18 Squadron.
A bit of a needle in haystack search but any info. would be most appreciated.
With advance thanks.
OPF
I have recently aquired a couple of rare Colour slides of Valiant B1 "WP 213" in service 1955-1965.
Taken over Nairobi Airport I guess maybe late 50s early 60s.
They are original Kodak slides but no date stamp on the mounts.
I would very much like to know when the Photographs were taken and the circumstances.
I am in contact with Brooklands who have no info. on this Aircrafts movement history outside the UK.
Plus in touch with an historian and awaiting a reply re possible detailed movement history.
I know its awhile ago now but has anyone any information about this aircrafts
overseas deployments etc.
Maybe Aircrew /Ground crew who may have been involved with WP 213 during her life span 1955-1965 can help?
The only references I can find are with
Squadrons
138, then 49? (Formed from 138 Sqdn.), 18 (Photo of WP-213 with 18 Sqdn. on the web.) 199 Sqdn. C flight aircraft formed 18 Squadron.
A bit of a needle in haystack search but any info. would be most appreciated.
With advance thanks.
OPF
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theres a photo a Valiant plus crew on the ground at Nairobi at 138 Squadron
Its said to be on a "Lone Ranger" mission
No date given though this site says the "Lone Rangers" were post-Suez
V-Force Reunion - 138 Squadron 1955 to 1962
While this last site give brief details of the Lone Ranger missions
THE VICKERS VALIANT 199 AND 18 SQUADRONS - Britmodeller.com
Hope this narrows it down
edit
this site has a few more pix of Valiants at Nairobi,
RAF Eastleigh
Its said to be on a "Lone Ranger" mission
No date given though this site says the "Lone Rangers" were post-Suez
V-Force Reunion - 138 Squadron 1955 to 1962
While this last site give brief details of the Lone Ranger missions
THE VICKERS VALIANT 199 AND 18 SQUADRONS - Britmodeller.com
Hope this narrows it down
edit
this site has a few more pix of Valiants at Nairobi,
RAF Eastleigh
Last edited by jamesdevice; 28th Nov 2011 at 23:14.
Thread Starter
jamesdevice
Thanks for reply.
Having checked all the links etc. I would say it was on a "Lone Ranger" mission.
I assume as before that the slide I have,( plus a second in the post) was taken in the late 50s early 60s.
If the second slide is a different aircraft it will pose other questions.
OPF
Thanks for reply.
Having checked all the links etc. I would say it was on a "Lone Ranger" mission.
I assume as before that the slide I have,( plus a second in the post) was taken in the late 50s early 60s.
If the second slide is a different aircraft it will pose other questions.
OPF
A Valiant would have only been able to arrive at Eastleigh and as there isn't one still there I presume one didn't. They would, as I once did, go to Nairobi International, Embakasi. That had the luxury of, IIRC, a 12,000 runway and the best in flight catering I have ever experienced.
Take-offs were different. Bomber Command runways had a line painted across the runway at 1,500ft as an acceleration check point. Normally, then, you were at about 80 knots or so. Embakasi had no lines so we chose a fire vehicle access point that was 4,500 ft down the runway. AT 28 Celsius and 5,000 ft altitude the speed there was 85 knots. Water Meth injection was selected as we started the take off roll that gave us an extra 1,000lbs thrust per engine. It lasted for one minute and it ran out just as the mainwheels left the runway. We very nearly did two take-offs.
Embakasi opened in 1958 so your pictures would be after that. Colour slides were not common (or affordable for aircrew) until 1960/1 and as the squadron folded in 1962 it was almost certainly during that time.
Where 213 went to after 138 folded I do not know. I did not fly it at Gaydon and it was too old to be used as a tanker. It may well have been stored at Keevil until it was broken up. 7 Squadron's Valiants were stored at St Athan until the Grand Scrapping.
Take-offs were different. Bomber Command runways had a line painted across the runway at 1,500ft as an acceleration check point. Normally, then, you were at about 80 knots or so. Embakasi had no lines so we chose a fire vehicle access point that was 4,500 ft down the runway. AT 28 Celsius and 5,000 ft altitude the speed there was 85 knots. Water Meth injection was selected as we started the take off roll that gave us an extra 1,000lbs thrust per engine. It lasted for one minute and it ran out just as the mainwheels left the runway. We very nearly did two take-offs.
Embakasi opened in 1958 so your pictures would be after that. Colour slides were not common (or affordable for aircrew) until 1960/1 and as the squadron folded in 1962 it was almost certainly during that time.
Where 213 went to after 138 folded I do not know. I did not fly it at Gaydon and it was too old to be used as a tanker. It may well have been stored at Keevil until it was broken up. 7 Squadron's Valiants were stored at St Athan until the Grand Scrapping.
Thread Starter
Tankertrashnav.
I chatted to Nobby at the start of my investigation as to origin/date of my Photo.
Great chat, a mine of information, and looking further into any "History" of WP 213.
I am only sorry that I am unable to show a copy of the photo. at the moment
I am working on it and will try and take a photo of it "Projected" on to a screen, sometimes can work, watch this space.
Again thanks to all.
OPF
I chatted to Nobby at the start of my investigation as to origin/date of my Photo.
Great chat, a mine of information, and looking further into any "History" of WP 213.
I am only sorry that I am unable to show a copy of the photo. at the moment
I am working on it and will try and take a photo of it "Projected" on to a screen, sometimes can work, watch this space.
Again thanks to all.
OPF
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Eric B Morgan's book 'Vickers Valiant' gives potted histories of all the aircraft. This is what it says for WP213:
6.7.55 138 Squadron, Gaydon and Wittering.
29.5.57 199 Squadron, Honington, an electronic countermeasures unit.
16.12.58 18 Squadron, Honington, formed from C Flight 199 Squadron.
18.4.63 19 Maintenance Unit St Athan
23.4.63 non effective
6.4.65 sold for scrap
My father flew with 7 Squadron and went to Embakasi, Nairobi in May 1959. They flew via Idris in Libya, then Embakasi where they stayed for two days. The return was via El Adem in Libya, Marham (for customs presumably), then Honington (home of 7 Squadron then).
I got this information from 7 Squadron's Operations Record Books held at The National Archives, Kew. These are on microfilm. They would be the most accurate source of information, giving crew names, take off times and some basic information on the purpose of the sortie. The one mentioned above was not noted as a Lone Ranger, but it may have been. As well as the five crew, it's more than likely that the crew chief would also have been on the flight. Of course to find the info more readily you would need a squadron, an approximate date, and a pilot's name would also help.
You might get some idea of the Squadron by looking at the tail plane of course.
6.7.55 138 Squadron, Gaydon and Wittering.
29.5.57 199 Squadron, Honington, an electronic countermeasures unit.
16.12.58 18 Squadron, Honington, formed from C Flight 199 Squadron.
18.4.63 19 Maintenance Unit St Athan
23.4.63 non effective
6.4.65 sold for scrap
My father flew with 7 Squadron and went to Embakasi, Nairobi in May 1959. They flew via Idris in Libya, then Embakasi where they stayed for two days. The return was via El Adem in Libya, Marham (for customs presumably), then Honington (home of 7 Squadron then).
I got this information from 7 Squadron's Operations Record Books held at The National Archives, Kew. These are on microfilm. They would be the most accurate source of information, giving crew names, take off times and some basic information on the purpose of the sortie. The one mentioned above was not noted as a Lone Ranger, but it may have been. As well as the five crew, it's more than likely that the crew chief would also have been on the flight. Of course to find the info more readily you would need a squadron, an approximate date, and a pilot's name would also help.
You might get some idea of the Squadron by looking at the tail plane of course.
Thread Starter
The photo. in question. WP 213
To everyone who has replied
For what its worth here is a poor reproduction of the Slide.
Taken from a projected image.
Not much to be gleaned from it I dont think.
Cheers
OPF
Slide mount info. "N'bi Airport"
Processed in the USA. Taken I think, by a private individual.
For what its worth here is a poor reproduction of the Slide.
Taken from a projected image.
Not much to be gleaned from it I dont think.
Cheers
OPF
Slide mount info. "N'bi Airport"
Processed in the USA. Taken I think, by a private individual.
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Hello, just to let you know that I have a slide of WP213 in the static display at the 1961 Finningley show wearing 207 squadron markings
which is the red lion that you used to see on british farm eggs.
during their service many valiants went out to Butterworth in Australia and your air to air slides may be taken en route. Have a look at 207 sqd sites on the net there's lots of photos that might help you get nearer to sorting the puzzle out
best regards
steve( aircraftsnapper)
which is the red lion that you used to see on british farm eggs.
during their service many valiants went out to Butterworth in Australia and your air to air slides may be taken en route. Have a look at 207 sqd sites on the net there's lots of photos that might help you get nearer to sorting the puzzle out
best regards
steve( aircraftsnapper)
You would have thought you were in Australia.
There used to be the Alert Sabres on one end of the runway. The pilots used to get out and retire to a safe distance if a V bomber was taking off from the other end.
There used to be the Alert Sabres on one end of the runway. The pilots used to get out and retire to a safe distance if a V bomber was taking off from the other end.
Thread Starter
Photo. of WP 213
Here is a download of the other slide I have of WP 213.
It is the preceeding "slide" in the film sequence to the one in my post #10, this thread.
Difference being it is "Cleaned up" , so not sure if it was over the Airport to break to come in as per the Photo with wheels down. Or both photos are seperate "Passes" over Nairobi airport.
As before this download is from a photo of the slide "Projected" on a screen, so not top quality.
With many thanks to all responses to my thread, most informative and helpful.
OPF
It is the preceeding "slide" in the film sequence to the one in my post #10, this thread.
Difference being it is "Cleaned up" , so not sure if it was over the Airport to break to come in as per the Photo with wheels down. Or both photos are seperate "Passes" over Nairobi airport.
As before this download is from a photo of the slide "Projected" on a screen, so not top quality.
With many thanks to all responses to my thread, most informative and helpful.
OPF
Fits in with the opening of Embakasi. A clean pass and then one with the gear down. In those days they would not have advertised what the interior of the bomb bay looked like as the aircraft was still bordering on secret.
