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Queens Diamond Jubilee Medal

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Queens Diamond Jubilee Medal

Old 29th Nov 2011, 06:36
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Righting Some Wrongs

I haven’t followed every last post but I offer the following thoughts.

THE FIVE YEAR RULE:

If an individual has received a campaign medal or gallantry award without a campaign medal but has served less than the 5 years minimum: award the QDJM.

INJUSTICE:

Personnel of the RAF Reserve (Civilian Component): RAFR(CC) are formally appointed to uniformed posts; the officers are gazetted, appear in the Air Force List (when it was published), get the scroll from HM, wear uniform which is indistinguishable from other service personnel, and often hold command authority over regular personnel. In some cases their duties are more onerous than those of the RAFR holding what the service classes as ‘real reserve appointments’.

These RAFR(CC) are, however, recruited through the civil service channels and are paid against an equivalent civil service grade eg: Sqn Ldr = C2. Often, RAFR(CC) are the ‘public face’ of the RAF in areas such as community relations and they can be involved in administering some elements of our international commitments. Those who administer the air cadets, control and oversee the work of the RAFVR(T) and provide professional and service related ‘competences’ which VR(T) personnel don’t have.

It is likely that RAFR(CC) will not be deemed eligible for the QDJM, although RAFVR(T) will be and you may wish to compare this with, for example, Police Community Support Officers, who will be eligible on the time rule.

I declare that I have no personal interest in this anomaly, other than to see ‘justice’ for those who make a valuable contribution to the armed forces, its reserves and cadets.

Old Duffer
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Old 29th Nov 2011, 08:12
  #62 (permalink)  
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Or how about this for the 5-year rule

If you qualify for the QGJM and had 25 years service prior then the right to wear the QSJM.

If you served for 5 years after the award of the QGJM award a rosette for the QGJM.

If you quaklify for the QDJM and had more than 5 years service prior then the right to wear the QGJM.

Then 5 years after the award of the QDJM award a rosette for the QDJM.

If you have more than 10,000 hours then a new award for ...........


TIC
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Old 29th Nov 2011, 20:44
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
in any military or close support service [such as, dare I say, Met.]
er...............no.

Noting BGB is aged 11, I can forgive his/her ignorance on the subject of close Met. support.

Amongst others, either by uniformed Mobile Met Unit or CC commissioned staff : EVERY Harrier deployed exercise in and from BFG.
EVERY 1BR Corps deployment in BFG
EVERY Purple exercise.
CORPORATE
Both Gulf Wars
The Balkans
and SF that I cannot list and many others.



The fact is that our NATO allies in the main offer only a 2nd class Met. service and wise senior planners take their own specialists with them.
Close support, yes.
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Old 2nd Dec 2011, 17:22
  #64 (permalink)  
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Don't know what all the fuss was about. I am now qualified to buy a QDJM for just £39.95 plus £12.50 for engraving, £4 for the bar and £3.00 P&P, bargain. BTW, this offer is for a comemorative medal and is not the real thing.

However I just received a newsletter from Worcestershire Medals who won the contract for the real medal - all 450,000 of them. But of real interest to those entitled is a special offer of a minature:

"In celebration of this contract award, the miniature, which has been licensed by the MoD has been reduced in price. We are also offering a special price of just £1 for the miniature when you have your miniatures mounted by us."

http://31.222.134.33/imagestream/doc...1211140115.pdf

Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 2nd Dec 2011 at 17:57.
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Old 2nd Dec 2011, 19:17
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Old Duffer

Sadly Old Duffer the clue is in the title: Civil Component. RAF(CC) are civil servants and thus not eligible for the gong. I didn't think VR(T) officers were either but I could be wrong.
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Old 2nd Dec 2011, 20:28
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Quote, Tashengurt: I'll wear it. Next to my medal from GW1 which was also awarded for attendance. At least they demonstrate that for 27 years I've been serving this country in one role or another. Much, much more than many of the oxygen thieves I deal with daily in my current employment.

Hmmn. By my reckoning, you should already have the QGJM already next to your Gulf Medal, the QDJM will be worn next to the QGJM, in the most junior position (assuming you have no other medals for example LSGC, ACSM or foreign awards which all have lower precedence regardless of when received). The only funny would be if you had broken service where it would be possible to have only the Gulf Medal and QDJM, I would have to check on that.

SL
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Old 2nd Dec 2011, 21:14
  #67 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Impiger View Post
Sadly Old Duffer the clue is in the title: Civil Component. RAF(CC) are civil servants and thus not eligible for the gong. I didn't think VR(T) officers were either but I could be wrong.
Impiger you are correct in that CC and CS were not eligible but the argument is that the RAF(CC) are actually fully gazetted (until it went online) and have authority over all officers and OR junior to them. The civil police and fire service as also public servants.

The truth of the matter is that Doctor Moody made a bum decision and no one is prepared to reverse it.
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Old 2nd Dec 2011, 21:40
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I play for the "2nd XV" (ie. Reserves) these days and I will get one apparently (medal number 6 to join the other 4 for eating pizza and Timmy Hortons and the other choccy just for being in).

LJ
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Old 2nd Dec 2011, 21:50
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Sloppy Link

The medal order is a matter of some debate at present, here is an extract from the latest DIN advising medal order (different to yours):

3. The medal is to be worn on the left breast, immediately after campaign medals, including UN and NATO medals, and medals for valuable service with all other jubilee and coronation medals in date order of award.
So I read that as the QDJM goes right at the very end - I understand that the recent DIN for the ACSM said the same thing in contradiction to other medal orders of wear.

I even asked my SWO the other day after Remembrance Parade and he had also been looking at the same thing and could not get a straight answer out of the medals office.

LJ
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Old 2nd Dec 2011, 22:16
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The reason you are having difficulty in understanding that is because it is a confusing bit of writing, JB. What is meant by 'medals for valuable service' actually means a rather short list of medals, such as the Imperial Service Medal and a few former colonial medals, none of which apply to current British service personnel. It does not mean long service and good conduct medals, which continue to rank after coronation and jubilee medals, including the new QDJM.

The only medals which come after long service medals are commonwealth and foreign awards.

Oh and the VC takes precedence over absolutely everything, but I don't believe we have any in the ranks of PPRuNe (unless anyone knows better!)
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Old 3rd Dec 2011, 07:08
  #71 (permalink)  

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On present plans VR(T) will get it, as will the ATC Adult SNCOs/WOs who are arguably more "civilian" than RAFR(CC). For example, CC are subject to the Armed Forces Act, while Adult SNCOs are not.

The apparent criterion is "receiving remuneration for volunteer uniformed service." In practice, it looks like the preparatory staff work consisted of digging out the QGJM regs, crossing out "QGJM" and inserting "QDJM"!

TTN is - of course - correct on mounting order. There is an incredibly detailed list in AP 1358, which is not entirely intuitive. I put my QGJM in the wrong place initially, as I (wrongly) assumed that my ACSM counted as a campaign medal, and would come before the Jamboree Medal. In fact the ACSM is technically a Long Service Medal and so comes after the QGJM.
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Old 3rd Dec 2011, 08:24
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Sloppy,
You're right, I do have the QGJM I just failed to mention it. Actually that one was awarded after a break in service and is based on an aggregate of mob and Police service.
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Old 3rd Dec 2011, 09:09
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Leon,
Methinks SWO needs to do his homework, the Royal Warrant clearly states the ACSM is after medals for Meritorious Service, on checking Meritorious service . What serves to confuse is the ACSM has the word "Campaign" in its title when it is in fact awarded for long service thereby explaining its juniority. Therefore, the correct order (assuming entitled) would be: Honours & Awards - Campaign Medals (in order of award to the individual) - QGJM - QDJM - MSM - ACSM94 - ACSM11 - LSGC - Foreign Awards.
There are funnies, Op Agila being one, it sits at the most junior but above LSGC regardless of when awarded. I recall this is because it was never recognised as a campaign medal but a peacekeeping medal.

Simples.
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Old 3rd Dec 2011, 10:41
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There is an incredibly detailed list in AP 1358, which is not entirely intuitive.
I agree, particularly as regards the Accumulated Campaign Service Medal. I think it was an odd decision to place this one with the long service medals, but that is the position as it stands.

SWOs aren't the only ones to get confused. When I mounted a soldier's medals for him in my shop, he was back after a couple of weeks demanding that they be re-mounted as his CSM had told him that the QGJM should go after his LS&GC. I gave him a photocopy of the order of wear and sent him off with the unenviable prospect of telling his sergeant major he was wrong.
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Old 3rd Dec 2011, 11:00
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I had an interesting chat with a SWO a few years back who insisted that my ACSM had been mounted in the wrong position. As others have said it seems that the 'Campaign' part of the medal title is where the confusion arises.

To be fair though I also assumed that it was to be mounted with the campaign medals and it was the Arborfield garrison tailor who corrected me.
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Old 3rd Dec 2011, 15:26
  #76 (permalink)  

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There are other oddities, particularly where GSM 62 pattern (mostly NI) is concerned vis a vis other campaign medals, Falklands, Gulf various etc. Have seen SWOs going hairless insisting they should all be in the same order.

Also remember MANY years ago an aged Regt officer who had an old style GSM (equal green purple green stripes) which he wore IN FRONT OF his WW 2 medals - cue apoplectic SWO. Until he pointed out the GSM was from Palestine in 1937! (I did say many years ago .........!)
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Old 3rd Dec 2011, 17:41
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Go To The Secretary of State

Regarding the eligibility for the QDJM, this is the letter I have sent today to the Secretary of State for Defence. I work with CC class reservists and feel keenly that their omission is grossly unfair. I have urged some of them to rush out and sign up in an eligible class of the reserves before it's too late!!

Dear Mr Hammond,

The Queen’s Diamond Jubilee Medal (QDJM)

I write ask if you will have the MOD reconsider the eligibility criteria for the award of the above medal to some classes of armed forces reserves.

Most reservists are included in the eligibility grouping, with the exception of the ‘Civilian Component’ (CC) of the reserves. Despite their title, which emanates from the fact that they are recruited and employed via a civil service arrangement, these personnel are required to wear uniform and are subject to the armed forces disciplinary code, in addition to the civil service code. The CC officers hold a formal commission, which is recorded in the London Gazette, as well as the individual service lists. Furthermore, an officer’s appointment to a CC commission includes a parchment of appointment issued in Her Majesty’s name. Their uniform is indistinguishable from that of a regular service person and their duties often require them to exercise command and full disciplinary powers over regular personnel.

CC personnel, who are predominantly former regular service men or women, are recruited and employed because they possess competencies which are unlikely to be readily available elsewhere. For example, they may be air traffic controllers or former members of aircrew. Those employed with the cadet forces, oversee the work of the volunteer reservists (who are eligible for the QDJM), provide professional and specialist services to them and are responsible for the nurturing and training of those volunteer reservists.

Many CC personnel feel a deep sense of disappointment that they are being overlooked for the award of this prestigious recognition of Her Majesty’s reign and their dismay is heightened when it is realised that Police Community Support Officers, for example, are to receive the award.

Please may I urge you to redress this injustice, which I bring to your notice not because I will be a beneficiary of any change but because CC personnel are an integral and respected element of the armed forces and I believe their omission from the award’s criteria is unfair.

Yours sincerely

Old Duffer
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Old 3rd Dec 2011, 18:28
  #78 (permalink)  

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Nice one O-D, but don't hold your breath!
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Old 3rd Dec 2011, 19:00
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If I don't qualify for the QDJM by being current frontline Police Staff, why on Earth should I get one for simply being a veteran? Isn't that why we have the 'Veterans Badge'?

My colleague was shot at while doing his job during the recent riots, yet he will not be getting the medal. Why should someone whose only qualification is that they survived the NAAFI bop of a Friday night in Germany all those years ago get one, and not him?
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Old 3rd Dec 2011, 19:10
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Too much fuss about a comemorative medal. For God's sake grow up! The rules are there, we're not going to change them and none of us should be there to collect gongs.
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