Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

High Altitude military IFR formation flying

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

High Altitude military IFR formation flying

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 17th Nov 2011, 19:19
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,780
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
High Altitude military IFR formation flying

Cruising along over France a few days ago, at FL400, a couple of (presumably) Rafale's overtook us, a couple of levels lower, in tight formation, following the same airway. They slowly pulled away for the next 30 mins or so, at the same level and separation, before I lost sight of them.

Excuse my ignorance, but presumably they would have been on autopilot? If not, are late generation military jets stable enough to fly for long high altitude transits by hand?
Trim Stab is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2011, 19:29
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: It's a secret
Posts: 338
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
You can fly loose formation with split axis autopilot on some aircraft, ie Alt lock in but roll channel manual.
Specaircrew is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2011, 19:38
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,895
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Set height & heading hold, then just nudge the heading bug or autothrottle datum every so often (maybe every 3 mins or so). The F3 Tornado used less fuel if you used manual throttle.

Not in true close formation though. Fly a tight battle; quick radar scan ("just one ping, Vassily") to check lead's speed.

...and take a mini height split (say 80') in case you fall asleep.
Fox3WheresMyBanana is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2011, 19:48
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Retired to Bisley from the small African nation
Age: 68
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well I don't think the Hawk counts as a late generation military aircraft, and I remember being required to maintain airways IFR limits at FL3xx to get my rating with a grand total of about 25 hrs on type.

Now the Hawk has great handling qualities, but no autopilot of any sort.

It isn't that difficult, really.

OK I ended up on helicopters, but not through inability to fly a Hawk.

Sven
Sven Sixtoo is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2011, 20:02
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wherever it is this month
Posts: 1,792
Received 78 Likes on 35 Posts
Have flown transits of up to 3 hours as a Tornado wingman using the autopilot in altitude and heading hold as described above... tweaking the heading bug as required. With practice a steady fighting-wing position can be comfortably maintained (about 100m separation, approx 60 degree swept) which enables visual contact to be maintained in thin clouds. If the leader's speed is stable enough, autothrottle can be engaged and tweaked until the pilot gains sufficient spare capacity to read a newspaper, do a puzzle book, eat lunch, take a leak, etc etc...

We got very good at such things transiting from Al Udeid up to Iraq for 6 years! And more recently over the Med.
Easy Street is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2011, 20:28
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 322
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
You can use the same techniques in modern helicopters too, though clearly at much lower altitudes!
Doesn't work so well with the somewhat 'coarse' Alt Hold in a Puma however.
Aynayda Pizaqvick is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.