JP landing instruction
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I was chopped in no small way because of an instructor who punctuated his criticism by twatting my bone dome. I went from safe solo to chopped quite quickly - and only 19 years old with a PPL and glider bronze.
I find it very difficult to believe that the video clip truly depicted the standards of RAF instruction at the time, but if it really did, then we must have wasted a lot of money and a lot of talent during those years.
Avoid imitations
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It wasn't fully typical but by no means unknown at that BFTS, at least in my experience in the late 1970s. I was surprised how many QFIs seemed to be non-volunteers for the job.
We had one particular individual with a very nasty reputation. I didn't fly with him for long before I got to the situation where I spent much of my airborne time with him more or less wanting to punch his lights out. I went to the flight commander (Hinch) and asked for an instructor change. I was told "Well, someone's got to fly with him".
I obviously wasn't the first to ask but I did get an instructor change.
We had one particular individual with a very nasty reputation. I didn't fly with him for long before I got to the situation where I spent much of my airborne time with him more or less wanting to punch his lights out. I went to the flight commander (Hinch) and asked for an instructor change. I was told "Well, someone's got to fly with him".
I obviously wasn't the first to ask but I did get an instructor change.
In the late 80s RAAF, we had a senior officer (AOC Training Command as I recall) issue a directive to the flying schools that we were to lift our game regarding attitudes towards students generally.
It was an attempt at forced cultural change that involved things like trying to stamp out some of the jargon in use (eg you weren't to say a student was up for a scrub ride, it became an assessment ride or something like that), and we were to focus on helping people pass rather than weeding out the shaky ones.
To some, it wasn't much of a change - lots of us had great empathy for the studes and didn't like seeing them fail, but there were definitely some QFIs whose default mode was pressure and more pressure, a real 'them and us' attitude.
You can't be everyone's mate, of course, and not everyone will pass - we still need to fight to maintain standards - but there were a few shockers around.
I remember one bloke who would berate his students sarcastically and mercilessly. His cubicle wasn't far from mine; the put-downs and rhetoric would come floating strongly overhead and you'd think 'Glad I don't have to fly with you!'
We did have a few guys around the system who would whack the students on the side of the helmet, but I think verbal abuse was more the order of the day for those who leant towards an anti-student stance.
Having said all that, the system worked pretty well on the whole and I think the number of good guys well outweighed the bastards. There was just a less politically correct way of doing things, and less arse-covering paperwork required when someone did get scrubbed.
It was an attempt at forced cultural change that involved things like trying to stamp out some of the jargon in use (eg you weren't to say a student was up for a scrub ride, it became an assessment ride or something like that), and we were to focus on helping people pass rather than weeding out the shaky ones.
To some, it wasn't much of a change - lots of us had great empathy for the studes and didn't like seeing them fail, but there were definitely some QFIs whose default mode was pressure and more pressure, a real 'them and us' attitude.
You can't be everyone's mate, of course, and not everyone will pass - we still need to fight to maintain standards - but there were a few shockers around.
I remember one bloke who would berate his students sarcastically and mercilessly. His cubicle wasn't far from mine; the put-downs and rhetoric would come floating strongly overhead and you'd think 'Glad I don't have to fly with you!'
We did have a few guys around the system who would whack the students on the side of the helmet, but I think verbal abuse was more the order of the day for those who leant towards an anti-student stance.
Having said all that, the system worked pretty well on the whole and I think the number of good guys well outweighed the bastards. There was just a less politically correct way of doing things, and less arse-covering paperwork required when someone did get scrubbed.
On a lighter note:
Drag it to all four points of the compass to the limits of its travel and then recover from the ensuing UA?
-"Be gentle. Just remember - treat the stick like your girlfriend's nipple!"
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Canadian Break's post reminded me of the right hand circuits at Linton on Wednesdays and of a certain JP QFI's subtle approach to instruction. On this occasion, one of the mates on my course was sweating his way through his PFL pattern, religiously calling out the checks as he spiralled down the left hand pattern, when he felt the QFI scrawling something on his right kneeboard; he glanced across in a panic and saw just one word - Wednesday. 
Now that reminds me of attempting to join the circuit at Leeming one day! As we spiral down in the overhead my Man says "lot of Chipmunks here today" I look down to see a nice row of them parked on the disused runway! "Must be on a landaway Sir" Continues with talking to Leeming tower and positioning for the runway. Eventually overworked brain kicks in CHIPMUNKS!!! Now take a good look at the airfield ! Yes there is the A1 but something is not quite right!
Power on and start to climb! Change frequency to Dishforth Tower and apologise for the infringement!
Not a word said from the righthand seat!! In the debrief was told, "At least you took the hint!" His last student had actually landed at Dishforth!!
Power on and start to climb! Change frequency to Dishforth Tower and apologise for the infringement!
Not a word said from the righthand seat!! In the debrief was told, "At least you took the hint!" His last student had actually landed at Dishforth!!
Remember an invisible JP with 2 CFS QFIs calling downwind & finals for Leeming
ATC : Check you`re not at Dishforth
JP (after a long pause) HOW embarrassing!
I had excellent QFIs (and QWIs) at every stage of training (NUAS, 3 Sqn Cranwell, 3Sqn Valley and Brawdy TWU in the `80s) - damn sure I wouldn`t have made it otherwise. Mind you, although I only went FJ to keep my bonedome for protection, all physical abuse was delivered with feeling, and in my best interests. Really.
ATC : Check you`re not at Dishforth
JP (after a long pause) HOW embarrassing!
I had excellent QFIs (and QWIs) at every stage of training (NUAS, 3 Sqn Cranwell, 3Sqn Valley and Brawdy TWU in the `80s) - damn sure I wouldn`t have made it otherwise. Mind you, although I only went FJ to keep my bonedome for protection, all physical abuse was delivered with feeling, and in my best interests. Really.
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B Eagle - you've made my day!
So funny if it wasn't true!!- having shouted at the stude the QFI says- just relax your all tense...i wonder why!!!- They still existed when i was at Fenton in fact I'm sure all these QFIs ended up on the LTF!!!- If memory serves me the said QFI must have been at 1 FTS Linton about 1979-1980...any names??
The sharp banter some QFIs issued was much more amusing - and got the message across:
(Ballsed up approach): "Shall I overshoot, Sir?" "No, let's just f***ing crash!"
(Flapless approach): "I've been in the red/reds before, Bloggs - but that's the first time I've been in the green/greens on a flapless approach!"
(Forgottten checks): "Wheels might help....."
(Early IF): "How is it that you little buggers can fly at precisely 1377 feet, but never at 1500?"
(Student unable to land on the centreline, get progressivly further right - there are workmen on the grass): "Well, you certainly got their attention that time!"
And, of course, the classic: "I've told you how to do it, I've shown you how to do it. I can do it, the aircraft can do it - SO WHY THE F*** CAN'T YOU DO IT?"
(Ballsed up approach): "Shall I overshoot, Sir?" "No, let's just f***ing crash!"
(Flapless approach): "I've been in the red/reds before, Bloggs - but that's the first time I've been in the green/greens on a flapless approach!"
(Forgottten checks): "Wheels might help....."
(Early IF): "How is it that you little buggers can fly at precisely 1377 feet, but never at 1500?"
(Student unable to land on the centreline, get progressivly further right - there are workmen on the grass): "Well, you certainly got their attention that time!"
And, of course, the classic: "I've told you how to do it, I've shown you how to do it. I can do it, the aircraft can do it - SO WHY THE F*** CAN'T YOU DO IT?"
Last edited by BEagle; 10th Nov 2011 at 06:41.
Whatever happened to Messrs Oxborrow and Jamieson ..........
Last edited by spekesoftly; 10th Nov 2011 at 09:55.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Beamer,
Mr Oxborrow spent most of his time on Hercs ( some of it while you were there) his last tour was at Northolt. He left to run a hotel with his wife I think.
Mr Oxborrow spent most of his time on Hercs ( some of it while you were there) his last tour was at Northolt. He left to run a hotel with his wife I think.
That kind of instructional technique is not confined to the military...
Whilst line training with a well know North Sea operator i spent 20 hrs with just such an individual who took me from happily above the curve down to barley coherent. He would constantly criticise every action to the point that you spent so much time listening to him berate you that you then made another cock up - which he would then lambast you for........ ad-nauseum.
As for wanting to punch him.... He'll never know how close he came to being mowed off his bike on the way home one dark rainy night. (Seriously! - i actually accelerated towards him before i came to my senses).
But....... I look back now and i did learn from him - not the stuff he was trying to teach me, but important things none the less.
I met the retired head of the training school shortly afterwards and asked - "why the f*** was XX a line trainer?" - his response - "you come back in ten years and tell me".
OH
Whilst line training with a well know North Sea operator i spent 20 hrs with just such an individual who took me from happily above the curve down to barley coherent. He would constantly criticise every action to the point that you spent so much time listening to him berate you that you then made another cock up - which he would then lambast you for........ ad-nauseum.
As for wanting to punch him.... He'll never know how close he came to being mowed off his bike on the way home one dark rainy night. (Seriously! - i actually accelerated towards him before i came to my senses).
But....... I look back now and i did learn from him - not the stuff he was trying to teach me, but important things none the less.
I met the retired head of the training school shortly afterwards and asked - "why the f*** was XX a line trainer?" - his response - "you come back in ten years and tell me".
OH
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JP Instruction
Towers '68, Sqdn Ldr B J in RHS, above cloud, attempting a DME fix, "never mind that - look over there - building cumulus means a mass of rising hot air -can only be Trenchard Hall "
Many years later, taking a mate for a bimble in a PA28, crossing the Wirral, friendly call to Liverpool -extremely lovely female response " G-B... we have an air display over Hoylake - suggest you either do something very interesting or change your route" !
Many years later, taking a mate for a bimble in a PA28, crossing the Wirral, friendly call to Liverpool -extremely lovely female response " G-B... we have an air display over Hoylake - suggest you either do something very interesting or change your route" !
Last edited by chopd95; 10th Nov 2011 at 11:13.