SDSR vs historical 'efficiencies'.

[monkeymanagement]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have numerous threads across this forum discussing both historical and imminent 'efficiencies'. Whilst the effect, from every cut-back, promoted a prominently negative response at the time of instigation (despite the era) - did the streamlining, 'leaning' and the reductions, at the time, achieve the goal?

My 'starter for 10': 174k officers and airmen served in the RAF in 1939 - are we strategically better placed, counting the technological advancements, with less personnel today?

Appreciate that there is a cross-generation audience here - hence the above!

MM

[Red Line Entry]

According to figures by the independent NAO, the centralisation of 2nd/3rd/4th line maintenance for Fast Jets saved £1.4Bn between 2001 and 2007:

www.nao.org.uk/publications/nao_reports/06-07/0607825.pdf

[sooms]

I don't know whether it's possible to do the maths, but it would be interesting to compare the ratio of number of personnel to number of aircraft operated for say, today and the late 80's when arguably the RAF was at it's strongest in recent times. Would this be an accurate measure of relative efficiency?

In the late 80's we had about 110,000 uniformed strength-how many aircraft did we operate? RAFG had about the same number of FJ Sqns that we have now, plus 11GP had 8 AD Sqns and 1GP had 4 GR4 Sqns, 3 Jag Sqns,2 Harrier Sqns plus the Bucc force. SH Force was slightly smaller, we had a maritime fleet and the AT/AAR Fleet was bigger. Add to this the other units like the Canberra fleet, SAR force as well. Don't forget that the entire training fleet (1FTS,2FTS,4FTS,6FTS and RAFC) was operated and largely engineered entirely by blue suits.

Remove the RAF Regiment from the equation as being a separate combat element (about 5 field Sqns? plus Rapier Sqns).

Compare that to the current uniformed strength/aircraft operated today. What would be the aircraft/personnel ratio and would this be an accurate measure of 'bang to buck'?

[Finningley Boy]

The advantages of the present I'd say is almost purely in terms of accuracy over anything pre-SDSR. There has been pure reduction the R.A.F. since 24th October 2010. Therefore, I'd argue that the mass of the R.A.F. with Harriers, an extra two GR4 squadrons, Nimrods and all, was a superior one to now. The one we had prior to the Hoon cost review "Delivering Security in a changing world" or whatever cobbled together slogon was used, was stronger still. Between then and SDSR, assets were pruned away in a seemingly piece-meal fashion. Most of the F3 Force disappeared without any kind of publicly announced review of any kind.

I suspect it was all to pay for Iraq and Afghanistan!?!

FB

[tucumseh]

the centralisation of 2nd/3rd/4th line maintenance for Fast Jets saved £1.4Bn between 2001 and 2007

The demise of MoD personnel doing 2nd and 3rd line had the effect of denying procurement much of it's historical recruitment pool.

That is not to say every 2/3 liner makes a good procurer, but it is a proven fact that the majority of well managed projects have one thing in common - the project manager who carried out project initiation has worked backwards through the procurement cycle to the point that, after 5 or 6 promotions, he becomes a junior project manager.

It is a simple concept, best explained by the fact over 80% of through life costs occur in the In Service Support phase. If you know cack all about ISS, then there is little chance you'll avoid the avoidable mistakes seen on many a programme once it enters Service. I could get to £1.4Bn wasted due to this in a few seconds - and how do you put a price on programme delays and screw ups that have contributed to lost lives in recent years? These are the factors the beancounters don't mention. Whether or not the "new" regime maintains the FJ fleets better is but one relatively minor issue, because I'm sure the "old" system was just as good. (And was it not Tornado that suffered due to poor practices at 4th line some years ago?).

Just an alternative view from someone who called upon his 2nd and 3rd line maintainer training every single day while managing over 130 projects.