Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

29 Sqn "Phantom" & 392nd ODRAP "Bear" over South Atlantic 1982

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

29 Sqn "Phantom" & 392nd ODRAP "Bear" over South Atlantic 1982

Old 28th Sep 2011, 13:47
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Argentina
Age: 43
Posts: 44
29 Sqn "Phantom" & 392nd ODRAP "Bear" over South Atlantic 1982

Two sides of the story.

On July 11, 1982, Colonel Georgy Bul'bénkov (Soviet Navy, Naval Aviation) was ordered to fly his Tu-95 Bear "D" belonging to the 392 ODRAP from Angola to a certain point in the middle of the Atlantic, near Ascension Island.

His mission was to check any battle damage to carrier HMS Hermes, returning home from the South Atlantic War.

Detecting the carrier, and shortly before flying above it (Hermes was in close company of RFA Tidespring), his plane was intercepted by a FRG.2 "Phantom" of 29 Sqn RAF (XV 484), operating from RAF Wideawake (Sqn Ldr Morle at the controls)

Here are very rare pictures of this obscure fact of the Cold War.


Tu-95 crew took this picture.


HMS Broadsword crew took this one.


And here is two of the Phantoms at RAF Wideawake

Regards!
Marcantilan is online now  
Old 28th Sep 2011, 19:02
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Malkin Tower
Posts: 849
Googling that Russian pilots name brings up a couple of interesting pages

Google Translate

Google Translate

Interesting Russian anecdotes re the increased use of Bears during the war, how the Russians found some of the Belgrano dead, and the behaviour of the UK fleet towards the Russian spy ship.
If the translation is accurate, it indicates that the Bear teams jumped from flying 200 hours / year, to 100 hours in April alone
"the missions that lasted up to 15 hours without any alternate aerodromes, often having lost radio contact with their base, usually ending in a thousand feet or less near the vertical of the two British aircraft carriers"
Apparently there were six Bear missions to spy on the fleet

Last edited by jamesdevice; 28th Sep 2011 at 19:34.
jamesdevice is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2011, 19:33
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,258
(Sqn Ldr Morle at the controls)
If memory serves me correctly I suspect that's a typo and it's more likely to be Morley........
wiggy is online now  
Old 28th Sep 2011, 20:11
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Argentina
Age: 43
Posts: 44
I wrote the second piece.

A better translation is here: Soviets in Falklands / Malvinas

Regarding the first article, six missions are the number that a CIA declassified paper informed. I think the number is wrong, the "Bears" were there almosty three times a week.

Regards!
Marcantilan is online now  
Old 29th Sep 2011, 00:40
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Malkin Tower
Posts: 849
very intrigued by your suggestion that the Russians were prepared to sink a British submarine if it launched a nuclear attack on Argentina.
Is that just your speculation or do you have proof?
jamesdevice is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2011, 02:10
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Argentina
Age: 43
Posts: 44
I did not suggest that, I just pointed to a version told me by a credible person from former Soviet submarine circles.

In fact, I pointed that "the version seems ludicrous" Of course, the fact that Mr. Galtieri disclosed to Mr. Haig that he received such offer from the Soviets, and the disclosure of the "Legend" targeting system first real utilization adds a sense of reality of that history.

But just a sense, I still maintain that version is hard to believe.

Regards!
Marcantilan is online now  
Old 29th Sep 2011, 07:40
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 37
Posts: 150
Marcantilan, interesting reading, thanks.

Your second piece mentions the use of satellites by the Russians. I wondered if you were aware of the book 'GCHQ' by Richard J. Aldrich (2010) which mentions the secret deciphering of Russian satellite intelligence by the Norwegians during the conflict, which was then shared with the British, effectively giving us satellite coverage that we wouldn't otherwise have had?
Stu666 is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2011, 12:22
  #8 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Argentina
Age: 43
Posts: 44
Hello Stu,

Yes, I learned about that capability from a Norwegian TV show ( Norsk lyttestasjon viktig brikke i Falklandskrigen - Brennpunkt - NRK , I use a translator...)

However, later I talked with former Soviet army personnel and with a former Polish navy officer and they told me that is unlikely, due to good ciphering and, most important, because all Soviet recon satellites had no radio links with earth stations to transmit gathered information.

Mr. Aldrich´s book gives more info about that?

Regards!
Marcantilan is online now  
Old 29th Sep 2011, 13:12
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: SW England
Age: 64
Posts: 1,225
I enjoyed the bit in the translated account about the Chinooks trying "to damage the masts and aerials" of the surface ship with their downwash - suspect the auth sheet merely reflected 'ruthless wazzing' rather than any more serious intent.
Thud_and_Blunder is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2011, 14:32
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the ORP
Posts: 82
Well well, talk about a blast from the past. Thanks very much for the pictures, I have some of the ones we took of the Bears (there were 2 of them) but regret no means of uploading them onto Prune. The F4 crew was indeed Russ Morley & Nige Marks.
2 TWU is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2011, 15:27
  #11 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Argentina
Age: 43
Posts: 44
Thud:

Look at the Chinook pilot offer at page 55 here: http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research...20Campaign.pdf

And "Vulcan 607" (Rowland White) mentions that the offer was accepted...

2 TWU: Could I contact you privately regarding the pics you have?

Regards!
Marcantilan is online now  
Old 29th Sep 2011, 16:13
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the ORP
Posts: 82
Marcantilan, drop me a PM but please be aware I'm away an awful lot over the next couple of weeks.

2 TWU
2 TWU is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2011, 20:08
  #13 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Argentina
Age: 43
Posts: 44
PM Sent.

Another pic, in this case it looks like a Sea Harrier chasing the Bear.

(From HMS Antrim, copyright Chris Bolton)



Regards!
Marcantilan is online now  
Old 3rd Oct 2011, 15:15
  #14 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Argentina
Age: 43
Posts: 44
More pictures from the same close encounter. Also from the Bear.





Regards!
Marcantilan is online now  
Old 3rd Oct 2011, 22:21
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: SW England
Age: 64
Posts: 1,225
Marcantilan,

Apologies for the delay in replying. Thank-you very much for the link, which I had not seen before and thoroughly enjoyed reading; it looks as though a well-known character managed to get himself into the printed record.
Thud_and_Blunder is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2011, 17:31
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 586
Blimey,
that is indeed me in the back seat of the F4.

Have just dug several shots of the Bears (there were 2 of them) out of my Ascension Island album - I will scan them & post them here later.

We had early int that the Bear Ds had launched from Luanda & were heading towards the flotilla steaming North from the Falklands.

Russ Morley & myself had just been handed over the Q1 slot. The night Q1 team had been alerted a few hours earlier & were hoping to get scrambled before the handover!

Heading South East from Wideawake I got radar contact at long range at high altitude but descending towards the flotilla.

We completed our intercept & shadowed them down to low level from where the pictures above were taken.

We were also joined if my memory serves me right by a sea harrier launched from Hermes.

Have just checked my logbook, & see we completed a 1:30 hr sortie with no AAR before landing back at Wideawake.

Will get the pictures up here over the weekend.
Skid
SkidMX is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2011, 10:58
  #17 (permalink)  
McC
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ayrshire, UK
Posts: 429
I was the Q1 pilot who got woken up in the middle of the night and told to expect to be launched. Try getting to sleep after that! Then Morley and Marks breeze in after breakfast and off they go!!

More pics from Ascension,

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
McC is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2011, 13:57
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 37
Posts: 150
Hello Stu,

Yes, I learned about that capability from a Norwegian TV show ( Norsk lyttestasjon viktig brikke i Falklandskrigen - Brennpunkt - NRK , I use a translator...)

However, later I talked with former Soviet army personnel and with a former Polish navy officer and they told me that is unlikely, due to good ciphering and, most important, because all Soviet recon satellites had no radio links with earth stations to transmit gathered information.

Mr. Aldrich´s book gives more info about that?

Regards!
The book simply states that throughout the conflict the Norwegian signals intelligence base at Fauske regularly intercepted the Soviet satellite intelligence data. It doesn't say how they did it but if what you say about the Soviet satellites having no radio links is correct then one wonders if the satellite intelligence recovered by the Soviets after an overflight was then being transmitted by other means upon which it was compromised?
Stu666 is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2011, 15:11
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around
Posts: 788
What was the Q load on those? 4x9Ls, Sparrows and a SUU?
downsizer is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2011, 16:43
  #20 (permalink)  
McC
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ayrshire, UK
Posts: 429
4xAim9 G,
4x Skyflash or Sparrow
Gun SUU23
2x wing Tanks

Normal UK Q bird had a CL tank instead of the gun.
McC is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.