Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

North Korean GPS Jamming

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

North Korean GPS Jamming

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 11th Sep 2011, 10:23
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,780
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
reports on trials carried out by the lighthouse authorities. Interesting reading
Maritime Jamming Trial Shows GPS Vulnerabilities | GPS World

The accuracy of the GPS signal in La Spezia harbour used to be degraded by the Italian MOD. One night entering in pitch darkness I sailed into a militi (mussel) farm partly as a result.

The other part of the problem was me for not reading the warning on the chart...
Trim Stab is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2011, 11:33
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 3,225
Received 172 Likes on 65 Posts
Not exactly jamming related, but in 1995, long after GPS was first fitted to our aircraft, it was revealed an ambiguity in the wording of a key GPS specification meant manufacturers were implementing it wrongly. The effect was cumulative errors built up over time (during a single flight).

The first MoD aircraft modified to correct this only entered service in 2002.

I remember when this was notified to other aircraft offices most ignored it. Nothing was done to establish which systems were correct and which were wrong. This also raised an interesting question - the Failure Modes and Effects Analysis. Some offices reckoned the GPS unit in the aircraft would fail more often, so concentrated on providing more, instead of reverting to other NavAids. Others reckoned the main failure mode would be loss of satellite signal, multiple aircraft units would be useless, so concentrated on other backup systems. I always thought the latter a more sensible approach, given we didn't control the satellites. This simply highlights that, not very long ago, GPS was very immature. For example, it wasn't cleared for use in the Chinook Mk2 in 1994, despite having been fitted in the Mk1 some years earlier. You were allowed to switch it on, but not rely upon it in any way. I dare say there is still much to learn.
tucumseh is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2011, 15:40
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 58
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
GPS is one of the core technologies in western defense.
So influencing it has for sure a lot of attraction for any potential adversary.

Brute force direct jamming might be the easiest thing to deal with. At least you notice that you have a problem.
A more nastier way will be some kind of deception. I remember reading once a article about jamming that said "the most effective jamming is when the target doesn't know its being jammed".
For example many guided weapons rely on GPS guidance. i am not confident that these computer are smart enough to detect some subtitle jamming that messes up thier guidance just enough to miss thier target by lets say a mile.
Karsten99 is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2011, 17:27
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Back to the fold in the map
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 1 Post
GPS

Meakoning?!
Canadian Break is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2011, 17:35
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Malkin Tower
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Meaconing

Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007_alternate_theories
jamesdevice is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2011, 17:44
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Whyte House
Age: 95
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Meaconing was often used by the commies in an attempt to lure aircraft off track when flying through the three, I think, corridors to and from Berlin.
Willard Whyte is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2011, 17:56
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,222
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
In the early 90s the offshore helicopter industry used Decca as the prime area navaid. The Rnav box had a facility for GPS but in 1994 only one aircraft was fitted as a trial. There was no reason to think that Decca would not continue ad infinitum as equiping all the fleet would cost a lot of money.

Then they closed down the Decca chains...............................
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2011, 02:40
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Land of Oz
Posts: 564
Received 9 Likes on 5 Posts
Meaconing was often used by the commies in an attempt to lure aircraft off track when flying through the three, I think, corridors to and from Berlin.
Meaconing was also used in Vietnam - if flying near the DMZ or near Laos, they could f#ck with the TACANs in the area.
BBadanov is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2011, 11:04
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York & California
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why not just use the compasses on the planes? They still have those right?
Jane-DoH is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2011, 13:14
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 64
Posts: 2,278
Received 36 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Jane-DoH
Why not just use the compasses on the planes? They still have those right?

I don't think there is a compass invented yet that can tell you your position.

If you need to use a compass to find out where you are, you will have to wake up the navigator
ZH875 is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2011, 13:25
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Whyte House
Age: 95
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hmm, what? Just dozing you know.
Willard Whyte is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2011, 21:18
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Appears that the ROK media's comms were garbled:

No U.S. plane forced down by North Korea jamming: source
Reuters Sat Sep 10, 2011

A U.S. defense official denied on Saturday that a military reconnaissance plane was forced to make an emergency landing in March because of North Korean GPS jamming, as reported by a South Korean newspaper.

"We have no indication that any aircraft at the time of, or in the vicinity of, this alleged incident was forced to land on an emergency basis," the defense official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The Chosun Ilbo newspaper, quoting a South Korean Defense Ministry report, said on Friday the U.S. aircraft had been involved in military exercises.

It said the North Korean jamming signals also disrupted the global positioning system (GPS) devices of coastal patrol boats and speed boats of the South Korean Navy. Several civilian aircraft were affected.

There are about 28,000 U.S. troops based in South Korea and the U.S. and South Korean militaries hold regular joint drills. The two Koreas are still technically at war, having only signed a truce, not a peace treaty, to end the 1950-53 Korean War.
I/C
Ian Corrigible is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2011, 09:22
  #33 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 81
Posts: 16,777
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
A couple of years ago there was a trial off Flamborough Head. A vessel was manoevred just off the coast and subjected to GPS jamming. Basically a false signal was introduced that gave a false position. The GPS track passed overland - obviously had the ship relied on GPS it would have gone further offshore but the implication was obvious. (Open source)

Then you can use differential GPS where raw GPS is monitored with external sources. I guess in a way that a car sat nav system used this process with its snap-to-road software.

An Australian author has written a novel about a mership transitting the narrows in Indonesia. It was using differential GPS but priates were using a false beacon to seduce the GPS. Raw GPS would have revealled the correct position.

Many years ago a cruise liner ran aground. It had left Bermuda for New York. On departure the signal man had tripped on the GPS Antenna cable and it was disconnected. No one noticed the navigation display flashing DR for the next 2-3 days. When they made radar contact with the land they 'matched' the radar image to the erroneous nav display and convinced themselves they were on track. They ran aground.

In other words there is no substitute for proper navigation techniques.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2011, 10:58
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 3,225
Received 172 Likes on 65 Posts
Pontius, I agree with this. Technology has to be applied appropriately. Differential GPS was first fitted to / used with MoD UK aircraft in 1994, but that doesn't mean all of them need it.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about GPS and what it does. You need only look at the ZD576 BoI report and subsequent MoD statements to the effect that, because the GPS input to SuperTANS was seemingly working, that meant the entire Nav system was both accurate and serviceable. They never did retract this.
tucumseh is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2011, 22:12
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Military jamming of GPS in Scotland suspended - 10 Oct 11

Jamming of global positioning signals (GPS) during Europe's largest military exercise has been suspended, following complaints from fishermen.

The Royal Navy issued warnings in September and October that GPS in parts of Scotland would be disrupted during Exercise Joint Warrior.

But Western Isles fishermen said the first they knew was when their equipment went offline last Friday.
LFFC is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2011, 00:44
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: On the Bay, Vic, Oz
Age: 80
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Anyone know anything about the actual electronics involved in generating erroneous GPS readings?

It's just that I use a GPS on the golf course, as do number of my playing partners. It would be a little bit sad if their GPS's gave a distance to the green of 120 metres when it was actually only 90. The jamming device would have to be locally controllable as one wouldn't want to disrupt one's own device at a critical moment.
alisoncc is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2011, 18:08
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Malkin Tower
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
alisoncc

put one of these in your pocket and turn it on / off at the the critical moment

Mini Portable Cellphone & GPS Jammer J-260B [J-260B] - £60.00 : jammer4u.co.uk

Portable GPS Signal Blocker Jammer [J-260C] : jammer4u.co.uk

or even better, try this
Mini Portable Cellphone Jammer J-260A-PRO [J-2600A-PRO(Latest design)] - £99.10 : jammer4u.co.uk

Note that these are apparently legal to own, but illegal to use....

Last edited by jamesdevice; 12th Oct 2011 at 21:23.
jamesdevice is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.