After the riots: time to review how your tax pounds are spent

[MaroonMan4]

I found this article in the 'Your Money' section of yesterday's Daily Telegraph

Tax: where does your money go? – Telegraph Blogs

Yes I know it is the Daily Torygraph, and yes I know it is from a blog, but it caught my eye and may interest some?

[Al R]

America’s Tea Party has forced their government to justify how it spends other people’s money

The US is in the situation that we were in, post WW2, and how times change. The Chinese Central Bank this week told the Americans to spend less money on social programmes and more on fiscal responsibility to reduce its deficit - who would have predicted that a few years ago?

In terms of debt in the conventional sense, if the US was one of the members of the European Union, in terms of ranking, it would be somewhere between Italy and Greece. The UK is seen as a safe haven right now, because we have got to grips with spending (ok, we have a policy to reduce public spending). There has to be a downside to that, and there is, but no one solution in its own right is the perfect outcome.

[kluge]

Somewhat related to the thread:

Forming the rioters into a penal battalion for use as Taliban bait gets my vote. Might even save on roundtrip airfares.

Same for the effing PC crowd too.

[NutLoose]

In defence to some of the looters, and Camerons " Lack of Role Models", perhaps they should remember the allowances scandal, where is your role model when you see members of Parliament ( who should be the ultimate role model and unapproachable on morals) on a decent wage stealling from the public purse to fill their second houses paid for by us with all the lastest electronics........ myself I cannot see a difference in the principal of both cases....... and before anyone comments, I hope the looters get all they deserve, though I bet the looters will not get the opportunity to refund the monies they stole and that will be the end of the matter, unlike some called MP's for mistaken claims.

[Biggus]

Nutloose,

If you take a cross section of 600+ members of the public, you will almost certainly get a proportion of rogues, scoundrels and downright thiefs. In that way parliament is no different from society in general. The MPs fiddling their expenses (and I fully admit there were a lot of them) made the headlines - the ones only making genuine claims were barely mentioned in the media frenzy.

Power corrupts, and many MPs have been in parliament far too long, which leads to complacency and arrogance. Analysis of small elitist military units, especially ones where people have been serving for considerable periods of time, often shows they need a good shake up and injection of new blood and ideas. Maybe nobody should be allowed to be an MP formore than 10, 15, 20 years - pick a number.

The publics perception of MPs has been pretty low for many years now, the expenses scandal just confirmed it. They haven't been role models for many years.


The youth of today have few decent role models left, and over many recent years the press seem to have taken great delight in systematically attacking and dragging down (in some cases rightly) what few role models were left - including the UK military.

The youth of today seem to aspire to being a celebrity, such as a TV presenter, film star, singer or highly paid sportsman, rather than a doctor, astronaut, train driver, etc, etc,....











By the way, I'm not an MP, none of my relatives are MPs, neither do I particularly like or respect MPs......

[Willard Whyte]

The youth of today seem to aspire to being a celebrity, such as a TV presenter, film star, singer or highly paid sportsman, rather than a doctor, astronaut, train driver, etc, etc,....

I'm pleased, and relieved, to say that my 7yr old stated only the other week that he 'wants to be a rocket scientist' when he grows up.

[stumpey]

Good for him WW. There will always be a need for fireworks. (On the 5th of November)!

[Andu]

I think that most people accept now that it's a given that the vast majority of (for want of a better word) rioters were just opportunistic thieves. However, there has always been a pretty active anarchist element within UK society, and surely, a large part of the reason the Establishment is attempting to be seen to be cracking down hard on these thieves is their real concern that the anarchists (or, pick your own particular favourite political or religious hate group) will attempt to spring something similar to the last week in London during the Olympics.

Comments?

Edited to add that I have to agree with the comments about the politicians who rorted their allowances. Particularly for politicians, the old adage about Caesar's wife should apply. Each one found guilty of having done so should have been kicked out of office and banned from holding any public office or collecting any pension associated with that office for the rest of their lives.

Not that that will ever happen.

[kluge]

....and per the thread title another solution....

A meaningful consequence for illegal action by rioters and also abusers of public trust is missing.

Caning, introduced during the British Colonial period is used in Singapore.

Caning in Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

• Robbery
• Aggravated forms of theft
• Breaking and entering a house
• Assault with the intention of outraging the victim’s modesty
• A second or subsequent conviction of rape
• A second or subsequent offence relating to prostitution
• Living on or trading in prostitution.

Does scamming expenses = robbery?

But there is a get-out clause;


The convict will not be caned if he has been sentenced to death.

Can be used on miscreant children too.
According to a survey conducted by The Sunday Times (Singapore) in January 2009, out of the 100 parents surveyed, 57 said that caning was an acceptable form of punishment and they had used it on their children

Of course Singapore is not a democracy - oh


The UK's PC alternative for teaching discipline will probably end up being some foo foo version of The Dog Whisperer - TSST

[Whenurhappy]

Scamming expenses is not robbery - it is theft.

[Chainkicker]

I would have thought fraud more appropriate MPs...

[Trim Stab]

Health spending - a suggestion

As the Bellylarf article explains, NHS spending has increased substantially since 1979.

We could save £3bn of that per year by withdrawing care for smokers.
BBC NEWS | Health | Smoking 'costs the NHS billions'

All health costs for "self-inflicted" health problems should be charged directly to the patient.

[green granite]

We could save £3bn of that per year by withdrawing care for smokers.

All health costs for "self-inflicted" health problems should be charged directly to the patient.

Trim Stab you'll find that most of the people who are being treated for smoking related problems were smokers from way back before it was discovered that it was seriously bad for you. When I were a lad, when I went to the quacks he'd be puffing away merrily while you were in with him, although he would put in the ashtray while he examined you. So don't be so self righteous.

[Wander00]

Scamming expenses - "Obtaining Pecuniary Advantage by Deception" is contrary to the Theft Act - ie it is "theft"

[Abbey Road]

Trim Stab you'll find that most of the people who are being treated for smoking related problems were smokers from way back before it was discovered that it was seriously bad for you.

But many continue smoking, or take up smoking, when there has been ample evidence, for 20 to 30 years, that it is extremely harmful! Piss-poor argument, gg.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

As the Bellylarf article explains, NHS spending has increased substantially since 1979.

We could save £3bn of that per year by withdrawing care for smokers.
BBC NEWS | Health | Smoking 'costs the NHS billions'

All health costs for "self-inflicted" health problems should be charged directly to the patient.

What a ridiculous argument, you do realise that Government income from cigarette duty and VAT was 11.1billion pounds in 2010-2011, I think that more than covers the health costs.


And no, I have never smoked in my entire life

[green granite]

But many continue smoking, or take up smoking, when there has been ample evidence, for 20 to 30 years, that it is extremely harmful! Piss-poor argument, gg.

So that makes smokers who knew before they started about 46, you'll find that the people who need the treatment are in their 50's

[Chainkicker]

Scamming expenses - "Obtaining Pecuniary Advantage by Deception" is contrary to the Theft Act - ie it is "theft"

Either way, they're still a bunch of chiselling charlatans

[cazatou]

Abbey Road

I am afraid that your argument is futile in respect of the risks of smoking tobacco. HMG would face a barrage of litigation from elderly UK citizens who were conscripted into HM's Armed Forces and were issued a ration of tobacco products during their time in the Services.

I doubt whether even the current "Government" are stupid enough to go down that route.

Trim Stab

Should you really be resident in a Country where tobacco sales are a Government Monopoly?

[ACW599]

>Analysis of small elitist military units, especially ones where people have been serving for considerable periods of time, often shows they need a good shake up and injection of new blood and ideas. Maybe nobody should be allowed to be an MP for more than 10, 15, 20 years - pick a number<

At the risk of serious thread creep, VGS TGOs state that COs should serve for one four-year term followed exceptionally by another. For some reason this rule is not applied by HQAC, hence some VGS COs have been in post for 20 years or more.

It's debatable whether this is a Good Thing.