How many of the Falklands War Argentinian ejectees were rescued?
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Cosmicomet that's a serious and strange, not to say bizarre, charge to make. To what possible end would Crown personnel do this? It is a matter of record that the remains of Argentine dead were always treated with respect.
While most Britons revile the actions of your government in 1982 (as do many Argentineans) there is absolutely no general enmity or bad feeling against your country.
If you're concerned about respect for the dead, what happened to the corpses of the thousands of Argentinans who were horribly tortured to death by that government? Reportedly many were simply heaved from the back of military aircraft into the South Atlantic!
While most Britons revile the actions of your government in 1982 (as do many Argentineans) there is absolutely no general enmity or bad feeling against your country.
If you're concerned about respect for the dead, what happened to the corpses of the thousands of Argentinans who were horribly tortured to death by that government? Reportedly many were simply heaved from the back of military aircraft into the South Atlantic!
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At least one of the pilots Dave Morgan shot down on 8 June ejected. I flew very close to him in his parachute a second or two later.
I don't think he survived or that his body was ever recovered.
ES
I don't think he survived or that his body was ever recovered.
ES
Suspicion breeds confidence
If I can help. Most ejections from Daggers and Mirages were successful thanks to their Martin Baker seats. Sadly this was not the case with the Skyhawks as the Escapac seat aka "Humane Killer" did just that most of the time. I do have the reference material to give you an answer if it is that important.
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There was an article in one of the magazines a while back that related to some of the Argentinian ejections, the Argentines despatched a smaller ship to rescue them but were engaged by Lynx if my memory serves me correct, so sadly they were lost.
Out of interest, what was the problem with the Skyhawk seat, and did that apply also to US operated aircraft. IST some suspicion as to whether the Folland seat in the Gnat would get one out OK - something about seat pans breaking up
Suspicion breeds confidence
I've lost track of this thread but someone asked about a vessel sent to rescue downed aircrew. It was an ex American ocean going tug called the Garrachuga, looking for crew members of the Canberra shot down by 801. It was encountered by an 846 Sqn Sea King which it promptly shot at. Sea Skua armed Lynx from Coventry and Glasgow were called in to attack and scored two hits. One hitting a lifeboat, the other hitting the bridge killing the Captain and the duty watch. It eventually made home 3 days later.
Last edited by Navaleye; 1st Mar 2014 at 13:15.
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That's the one, the Canberra crew were then lost.
you have to remember that we all have to pretend to be fluffy bunny huggers now.
Damn! I got that wrong, I've been trying to bugger honey!
Damn! I got that wrong, I've been trying to bugger honey!
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Cosmiccomet has a point tho
In general and until very recently we buried our dead where they died - there are CWGC cemeteries across the world
These days we don't think it entitles us to a claim on those territories but in a lot of cases that was so at the time they died
Personally I think it was a tragedy that anyone died in the Falklands War
In general and until very recently we buried our dead where they died - there are CWGC cemeteries across the world
These days we don't think it entitles us to a claim on those territories but in a lot of cases that was so at the time they died
Personally I think it was a tragedy that anyone died in the Falklands War
@Shotone: If I remember correctly, a couple of bones from the body of Captain Casado were "discovered" inside a locker on the Capitalīs Police Station on 2008.
Maybe Cosmiccomet is pointing to that incident.
@Navaleye: The ship was the Sobral, not the Gurruchaga.
Here is the ship entering port. Note the damage in the bridge.
Regards!
Maybe Cosmiccomet is pointing to that incident.
@Navaleye: The ship was the Sobral, not the Gurruchaga.
Here is the ship entering port. Note the damage in the bridge.
Regards!
Originally Posted by marcantilan
@Shotone: If I remember correctly, a couple of bones from the body of Captain Casado were "discovered" inside a locker on the Capitalīs Police Station on 2008.
If your meaning was otherwise, then carry on.
P.S. Note the damage to the ship.
Sorry, I am not trying to mix politics in here, just trying to understand what cosmiccomet commented.
My "argument" is just an observation to other forum member. I am not claiming anything, and I am far from attacking anyone.
My "argument" is just an observation to other forum member. I am not claiming anything, and I am far from attacking anyone.
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The bone (I think singular in this case) was found a few years after the war as I heard it and ended up in the Stanley police station. As pointed out, this was discovered, returned to the family, DNA tested with Capt. Casado's brother and buried with honours. While I cannot get into details here, that is not all that washed up, and as I said, wreckage still comes in and out. But the discovery, or lack of declaration and identification is a moot point now as the right thing has been done.
Staying on the topic of ejections, what I am most interested in is whether Capt. Casado might have actually been able to eject at the last minute after all. There is some evidence as I say that could indicate he did, however without a lot more investigation, I cannot say for sure. Whatever the case, his trusty old Martin Baker appears to have been damaged after the Sea Dart hit, preventing him from ejecting with Capt. Pastran as they went down.
The dispatching of the Alfarez Sobral is also an interesting topic...assuming the Lynx engagement did not happen, the chances of locating the crew of B-110, let alone if they were still alive was slim to none in reality. Assuming they got their dinghies inflated, you'd have to look at wave conditions in that area, and what projected survival after immersion, even with an immersion suit would have been. I'd be interested to hear other thoughts on this.
Staying on the topic of ejections, what I am most interested in is whether Capt. Casado might have actually been able to eject at the last minute after all. There is some evidence as I say that could indicate he did, however without a lot more investigation, I cannot say for sure. Whatever the case, his trusty old Martin Baker appears to have been damaged after the Sea Dart hit, preventing him from ejecting with Capt. Pastran as they went down.
The dispatching of the Alfarez Sobral is also an interesting topic...assuming the Lynx engagement did not happen, the chances of locating the crew of B-110, let alone if they were still alive was slim to none in reality. Assuming they got their dinghies inflated, you'd have to look at wave conditions in that area, and what projected survival after immersion, even with an immersion suit would have been. I'd be interested to hear other thoughts on this.
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Some years ago I was in a small military museum,in Tigre province I think. The bridge of the ship that was hit by the Sea Skua was on display which I thought was a bit macabre. The missile is not very large but it really made a hell of a mess. There were long cracks and splits made in what looked like half inch plate.Judging by the structural damage anyone on the bridge would have been turned into the proverbial red mist. Most impressive - those who saw it arrive back in port would have been really impressed.
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Indeed. What's tragic about it is that it was a rescue mission and they made the choice to fire on the Lynx, thus inciting their wrath. It turned the loss of two aircrew into the loss of several more sailors and aborted the rescue attempt - double failure.
Then again, not being there at the time, it is really beyond me to judge the actions of the crew...just feels that way.
Then again, not being there at the time, it is really beyond me to judge the actions of the crew...just feels that way.
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Wander00. Are you sure that you are not confusing the Folland/Saab seat with the MB 2h/3h which was prone to seat pan collapse? Over 3 years at Valley including a stint as SFSO I never came across a case of Gnat seat pan problems. In fact with its comfortable rigid fibreglass seat cushion? allied to a large smooth accelerating gun cartridge, back injuries were rare and overall seat performance was most impressive. We were told not to
eject using the bottom handle as we would be going through the canopy (no MDC then). One QFI did as a last resort at extremely low altitude and the canopy breakers worked perfectly. All he sustained were a couple of rips in his suit leg map pockets.
My apologies for going off thread.
eject using the bottom handle as we would be going through the canopy (no MDC then). One QFI did as a last resort at extremely low altitude and the canopy breakers worked perfectly. All he sustained were a couple of rips in his suit leg map pockets.
My apologies for going off thread.
I do remember the glass fibre seats that were trialled, in the back in one aircraft and in the front of another. ISTR the straps crossed in such a way that one of the straps could press on a sciatic nerve. Hence if a pit limped away from the aircraft it was probable that it was a trial seat. I think it all got satisfactorily resolved. I do recall that instead of firing handle pins, there was a simple lever behind the head - if you could feel it in your head/neck, seat was not live. I am glad that the seat was in fact more reliable than my unreliable memory recalls! loved flying the aeroplane thought - still makes me grin nearly 50 years on.