Do you think this will work?
MG; then my sympathies- I'm headed that way myself.
Personally I think the transfer suggestion is another failure by this Government to think things through - The average Police Sergeant's lot is getting even less happy.
Personally I think the transfer suggestion is another failure by this Government to think things through - The average Police Sergeant's lot is getting even less happy.
I don't think it a daft suggestion. I could see it working as the joining the Forces as an officer parallel is not so wide of the mark. It might attract those in the Forces who otherwise might be put off going in at the PC level, with a lack of accreditation for their previous experiences. It's certainly worth a look and it should be trialled.
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Having reached the dizzy heights of Lt in the RN, I left and subsequently joined the Police 'to tide me over'.
I'm still here. It's a fundementally different job. The accelerated promotion scheme is a disaster and the ACPO types are so politicised, they have forgotten what their primary role is. Morale is rock bottom (isn't it everywhere?) and Cameron has an undisguised anti-Police agenda.
I'm glad I started at the bottom so to speak. I have remained 'front line' and avoided the easy office jobs which would have enabled me to gain faster promotion. My self respect meant more to me than lots of pips on my shoulder. If you're very good at 'diversity' or can manage to string a sentence that has 'community' every other word, you'll go far.
Just so you know what we're up against..read this concerning scroats letting fly a greeny in front of you.
I'm still here. It's a fundementally different job. The accelerated promotion scheme is a disaster and the ACPO types are so politicised, they have forgotten what their primary role is. Morale is rock bottom (isn't it everywhere?) and Cameron has an undisguised anti-Police agenda.
I'm glad I started at the bottom so to speak. I have remained 'front line' and avoided the easy office jobs which would have enabled me to gain faster promotion. My self respect meant more to me than lots of pips on my shoulder. If you're very good at 'diversity' or can manage to string a sentence that has 'community' every other word, you'll go far.
Just so you know what we're up against..read this concerning scroats letting fly a greeny in front of you.
"Spitting is a cultural issue. Young, jobless working-class men spit on the ground as a way of expressing frustration and powerlessness. It is also a way for young men from poor communities to mark territory, a kind of warning to other men in the street that they are present. For successful men, spitting on the ground is a way of demonstrating victory against the harsh realities of modern life, a challenge to others who may wish to rob them of their success.
It is judgemental for a police officer to challenge this behaviour. It shows an ethnocentric approach; why are the cultural norms of the young jobless community less acceptable than those of their more fortunate peers? To achieve the Public Confidence aspirations required by the National Policing Plan, police officers must begin to embed themselves in these cultures. This way, we can achieve our ultimate aim of policing our diverse communities with fairness and understanding."
It is judgemental for a police officer to challenge this behaviour. It shows an ethnocentric approach; why are the cultural norms of the young jobless community less acceptable than those of their more fortunate peers? To achieve the Public Confidence aspirations required by the National Policing Plan, police officers must begin to embed themselves in these cultures. This way, we can achieve our ultimate aim of policing our diverse communities with fairness and understanding."
The great benefit of pprune is comments from people who are actually involved in the subjects of the posts, and can express the nub of the problem precisely and concisely.
I think the spitting quote should succeed in putting all the lightweights off, and letting the committed know what they're in for.
Thanks for this mlc; you have my deepest respect, and sympathy.
I think the spitting quote should succeed in putting all the lightweights off, and letting the committed know what they're in for.
Thanks for this mlc; you have my deepest respect, and sympathy.
In that case someone needs to telll the "police" that spitting in the street is at best unhygenic, at worst positively dangerous as a way of spreading disease. B@@gger "cultural issues" - treat it as "assault" or "breach of the peace".
Last edited by Wander00; 25th Jul 2011 at 18:11.
why are the cultural norms of the young jobless community less acceptable than those of their more fortunate peers?
mlc
Unbelievable - I have the greatest respect for you having to put up with this sort of thing.
No such nonsense is tolerated in the USA - where I live, if a drunk "Spring Break" college kid so much as swears in public, he / she would get a $500 fine and a year on probation. When they hear the words "Turn around and put your hands behind your back" and the cuffs go on, the look on their faces says it all. "Busted" for "Minor (under 21) In Possession of Alcohol", "Drunk In A Public Place" and "Disorderly Conduct" - they now have a criminal record and their parents, 100s of miles away, are going to get called. Also, rarely does anyone want to add "Resisting Arrest" or (if not stopping immediately in a car) "Felony Evading". Lying to a police officer is "Giving False Information" and / or "Obstructing An Investigation". Compare this to the images in almost any UK city on a Saturday night of several police officers struggling to get one drunk, kicking and shouting abuse, into the back of a van.
Unbelievable - I have the greatest respect for you having to put up with this sort of thing.
No such nonsense is tolerated in the USA - where I live, if a drunk "Spring Break" college kid so much as swears in public, he / she would get a $500 fine and a year on probation. When they hear the words "Turn around and put your hands behind your back" and the cuffs go on, the look on their faces says it all. "Busted" for "Minor (under 21) In Possession of Alcohol", "Drunk In A Public Place" and "Disorderly Conduct" - they now have a criminal record and their parents, 100s of miles away, are going to get called. Also, rarely does anyone want to add "Resisting Arrest" or (if not stopping immediately in a car) "Felony Evading". Lying to a police officer is "Giving False Information" and / or "Obstructing An Investigation". Compare this to the images in almost any UK city on a Saturday night of several police officers struggling to get one drunk, kicking and shouting abuse, into the back of a van.
Last edited by RAFEngO74to09; 25th Jul 2011 at 17:44.
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This is not a new idea...Thatcher floated it during her reign.
I had a policewoman roomie for several years who was trying to make Sergeant and CID at roughly the same time (South Yorks). In her words the only thing that counted was the number of nicks you made per annum. She laughed off the concept of accelerated senior policemen/women as being a bad joke made by people who don't understand the concept of policing.
Not saying she was right...but her views are the norm for the rank and file so good luck to any accelerated "sprog" (military or otherwise) who ends up trying to lead a bunch of hardened cops.
PS
Not trying to be controversial but I'd rather have the yobs over here spitting on the pavement, than the yobs across the water shooting up Macdonalds.
I had a policewoman roomie for several years who was trying to make Sergeant and CID at roughly the same time (South Yorks). In her words the only thing that counted was the number of nicks you made per annum. She laughed off the concept of accelerated senior policemen/women as being a bad joke made by people who don't understand the concept of policing.
Not saying she was right...but her views are the norm for the rank and file so good luck to any accelerated "sprog" (military or otherwise) who ends up trying to lead a bunch of hardened cops.
PS
Not trying to be controversial but I'd rather have the yobs over here spitting on the pavement, than the yobs across the water shooting up Macdonalds.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
In one country I visited on my resettlement it was a cultural norm for both people and animals to crap in the street. It was not a cultural norm to clean the street.
Crapping on a street corner could be seen as a way of marking your territory as you would try and avoid crapping on your own piece of pavement.
Crapping on a street corner could be seen as a way of marking your territory as you would try and avoid crapping on your own piece of pavement.
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I still see difficulties in this, especially with the amount of Police redundancies being put about in the news. To say see you, we are replacing you with military officers will not go down well within the Police.
Similar the latest on Army redundancies, what a kick in the teeth they are... Ok you have done your tour in Afghanistan, we can't send you back out for a while so byeee, BTW fancy the TA?? but you guys we have just got trained up at some expense to go out there, you can stay, we don't really have the resources to replace you if you left and we haven't got our monies worth out of you yet.......... well it looks that way to these eyes..
Similar the latest on Army redundancies, what a kick in the teeth they are... Ok you have done your tour in Afghanistan, we can't send you back out for a while so byeee, BTW fancy the TA?? but you guys we have just got trained up at some expense to go out there, you can stay, we don't really have the resources to replace you if you left and we haven't got our monies worth out of you yet.......... well it looks that way to these eyes..
I think that, by the time the ex-mils have got through the Police Service training and the new (to them) HR and senior management systems courses, they'll be noticeably less able to follow their former leadership practices...
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mic wrote:
I am unable to find any offical publication of this, mic, do you have a reference for this?
But, just in case I missed something.... are the lefty nutjobs at HQ suggesting that officers on foot patrol should gob on the pavement during a stop & search, (or whatever it is called in your force are this month,) to show bonding with the community that they are serving (and searching) in the interests of harmony?
Is there a genuine desire on the part of those who drafted the NPP to see cops embed themselves in our diverse and multicultural society?
I look forward to seeing this resolved at the same time as the anti-sectarian inititave being pursued in Scotland.
Catholic hating, Flute playing, violent, bigots on the board of Rangers FC are sureley as entiltled to shout "F@@k the P##e" as the pond life are to spit on the ground. Who made the Polis the right people to judge if either group are right or wrong?
Loads of fun in this, and bringing ex military folk into the mix will not, imho, do anything to help.
"Spitting is a cultural issue. Young, jobless working-class men spit on the ground as a way of expressing frustration and powerlessness. It is also a way for young men from poor communities to mark territory, a kind of warning to other men in the street that they are present. For successful men, spitting on the ground is a way of demonstrating victory against the harsh realities of modern life, a challenge to others who may wish to rob them of their success.
It is judgemental for a police officer to challenge this behaviour. It shows an ethnocentric approach; why are the cultural norms of the young jobless community less acceptable than those of their more fortunate peers?
To achieve the Public Confidence aspirations required by the National Policing Plan, police officers must begin to embed themselves in these cultures. This way, we can achieve our ultimate aim of policing our diverse communities with fairness and understanding."
It is judgemental for a police officer to challenge this behaviour. It shows an ethnocentric approach; why are the cultural norms of the young jobless community less acceptable than those of their more fortunate peers?
To achieve the Public Confidence aspirations required by the National Policing Plan, police officers must begin to embed themselves in these cultures. This way, we can achieve our ultimate aim of policing our diverse communities with fairness and understanding."
But, just in case I missed something.... are the lefty nutjobs at HQ suggesting that officers on foot patrol should gob on the pavement during a stop & search, (or whatever it is called in your force are this month,) to show bonding with the community that they are serving (and searching) in the interests of harmony?
Is there a genuine desire on the part of those who drafted the NPP to see cops embed themselves in our diverse and multicultural society?
I look forward to seeing this resolved at the same time as the anti-sectarian inititave being pursued in Scotland.
Catholic hating, Flute playing, violent, bigots on the board of Rangers FC are sureley as entiltled to shout "F@@k the P##e" as the pond life are to spit on the ground. Who made the Polis the right people to judge if either group are right or wrong?
Loads of fun in this, and bringing ex military folk into the mix will not, imho, do anything to help.
Last edited by airpolice; 25th Jul 2011 at 22:44.
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It was stated at one of the many diversity courses that Police have to suffer as we're told we're all racist bigots who need reprogramming. I was put in detention at one as we were talked down to by a 'transexual' (who was clearly a truck driver in a dress). He (she?) said " It may surprise you to know I used to be a man". Under the 'I couldn't help myself' situation I blurted out "No **** Sherlock". I literally had my cards marked as needing 'extra training'.
Theresa May made a big thing of stating that performance targets (which Labour introduced when they Politicised the Police and destroyed their ability to perform their role) would end. What wasn't reported was that she introduced 'Milestones'. Exactly the same thing , but a nice, shiney, new name. This Government are as bad as the last. However, Labour were just incompetent, the Tories have an agenda.
I can only use a very few of the skills I developed in the Forces. The HR process means that there is no ability to bollock the lazy and incompetent. The majority of my time is spent trying to shield the shift from the utter nonsense that comes out of the various HR and diversity departments. Anybody who comes in from the Forces is going to have a big shock and they will have to have a major mind readjustment, which kind of defeats the object.
Theresa May made a big thing of stating that performance targets (which Labour introduced when they Politicised the Police and destroyed their ability to perform their role) would end. What wasn't reported was that she introduced 'Milestones'. Exactly the same thing , but a nice, shiney, new name. This Government are as bad as the last. However, Labour were just incompetent, the Tories have an agenda.
I can only use a very few of the skills I developed in the Forces. The HR process means that there is no ability to bollock the lazy and incompetent. The majority of my time is spent trying to shield the shift from the utter nonsense that comes out of the various HR and diversity departments. Anybody who comes in from the Forces is going to have a big shock and they will have to have a major mind readjustment, which kind of defeats the object.
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I threw in the accelerated promotion scheme to highlight how these applicants have been accepted by the rank and file. These recruits at least joined as a constable and had to sit exams to work their way up the ladder and during that period they managed to get a grounding in basic police work.
By recruiting these academics that joined solely to become senior managers we are now seeing what it has produced. We are now having senior officers being politically correct and allowing political interference when it comes to the policing of their areas of responsibility. That is wrong and always will be wrong.
The spitting documentation could well be an internal directive that is not accessible by Mr Google but I have no doubt some politically correct buffoon has implemented this directive and will insist it will be complied with.
Swearing at a Police officer is also now perfectly acceptable
I have rambled on about this because although the accelerated promotion program is disliked by the true rank and file bobbies on the beat… They are now in high office and these types of directives are the result.
You will not hear or read directives saying that all unruly drunkards will be arrested, instead we hear about 'zero tolerance' ???
By recruiting ex military officers and making them managers, who do we think they will listen to? A senior politician that is responsible for hiring them, or a bobby on the beat who is suggesting they are being wrongly advised?
There is NO SHORT CUT TO GAINING EXPERIENCE, it is folly to suggest otherwise
By recruiting these academics that joined solely to become senior managers we are now seeing what it has produced. We are now having senior officers being politically correct and allowing political interference when it comes to the policing of their areas of responsibility. That is wrong and always will be wrong.
The spitting documentation could well be an internal directive that is not accessible by Mr Google but I have no doubt some politically correct buffoon has implemented this directive and will insist it will be complied with.
Swearing at a Police officer is also now perfectly acceptable
A spokesman for the Met was unable to confirm the exact date the guidance was issued, but said the cards had been in use "for several years".
He added: "The Metropolitan Police Service issues officers with a memo card providing useful guidance on the execution of their powers.
"This includes advice regarding appropriate note taking and ensuring that they have appropriate grounds for an arrest.
"In particular it reminds them that the courts do not accept that simply swearing at a police officer is grounds for an arrest and illustrates how the MPS has had to make settlements in the past when officers have arrested solely for this."
He added: "The Metropolitan Police Service issues officers with a memo card providing useful guidance on the execution of their powers.
"This includes advice regarding appropriate note taking and ensuring that they have appropriate grounds for an arrest.
"In particular it reminds them that the courts do not accept that simply swearing at a police officer is grounds for an arrest and illustrates how the MPS has had to make settlements in the past when officers have arrested solely for this."
You will not hear or read directives saying that all unruly drunkards will be arrested, instead we hear about 'zero tolerance' ???
By recruiting ex military officers and making them managers, who do we think they will listen to? A senior politician that is responsible for hiring them, or a bobby on the beat who is suggesting they are being wrongly advised?
There is NO SHORT CUT TO GAINING EXPERIENCE, it is folly to suggest otherwise
