Psychological Characteristics Ideal to Military Aviators
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York & California
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Psychological Characteristics Ideal to Military Aviators
Assuming this isn't classified, how does the USAF, RAF, USN, RN FAA, determine what people are unsuitable to be pilots and which aren't
1.) Presently
2.) Ten to Twenty Years Ago
3.) Twenty to Thirty Years Ago
4.) Thirty to Forty Years Ago
1.) Presently
2.) Ten to Twenty Years Ago
3.) Twenty to Thirty Years Ago
4.) Thirty to Forty Years Ago
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Currently the RAF use the following selection criteria
"Good morning...are you a member of the Royal Family?
Yes...proceed to the tailors for measurement.
No...have you considered a career in retail or fast food?
"Good morning...are you a member of the Royal Family?
Yes...proceed to the tailors for measurement.
No...have you considered a career in retail or fast food?
At a guess, the last 2 posters are not RAF (you can tell, the banter is somewhat below par! 
)
AFAIK, RAF pilots need (in no particular order):
Huge gonads
An unrivalled charismatic sexual attraction in women
Massive intellect
Dynamic sporting prowess
...please continue.
)AFAIK, RAF pilots need (in no particular order):
Huge gonads
An unrivalled charismatic sexual attraction in women
Massive intellect
Dynamic sporting prowess
...please continue.
Last edited by just another jocky; 20th Jul 2011 at 11:58. Reason: strikethrough doesn't work
Jane, it goes in three parts usually.
Initial screening include a battery of tests (ASTB), demonstrated physical exam criterion met, and various interviews. You typically need to also have demonstrated the ability to acquire a university degree with better than average marks.
Then, there is initial flight training. This isn't just training, it is also a screening process. Some things you don't find out until people try to do them. Air sense doesn't penetrate all skulls.
Finally, there is the minimum performance standard. If the first two criterion are met, one must still acquire sufficient flying and decision making skills in a finite period of instruction, or the USN or USAF will not keep investing time and money into the prospective aviator.
You've asked a fairly big question.
What is it you really want to know, Jane?
I can tell you with certainty that presently, that is how it works, in the United States Navy.
Ten years ago, the screening tests were deemed to be less than suitable, and a five year program/overhaul was initiated. This was in part due to a number of the tests being compromised, and in part due to the medical, psych and learning/education experts believing that better screening tools could be applied.
Twenty years ago, mostly the same, but simulation fidelity to actual flying wasn't all that great.
Thirty years ago, once again, the same, thgough there began to be screening quotas cropping up for selected demographics to overcome systemic bias (or the perception thereof). One still had to show that one had the skills to fly, however, to get through it.
Roughly forty years ago, you typically had to have a penis to get assigned to flight training ... but that was in the process of being changed.
Initial screening include a battery of tests (ASTB), demonstrated physical exam criterion met, and various interviews. You typically need to also have demonstrated the ability to acquire a university degree with better than average marks.
Then, there is initial flight training. This isn't just training, it is also a screening process. Some things you don't find out until people try to do them. Air sense doesn't penetrate all skulls.
Finally, there is the minimum performance standard. If the first two criterion are met, one must still acquire sufficient flying and decision making skills in a finite period of instruction, or the USN or USAF will not keep investing time and money into the prospective aviator.
You've asked a fairly big question.
What is it you really want to know, Jane?
I can tell you with certainty that presently, that is how it works, in the United States Navy.
Ten years ago, the screening tests were deemed to be less than suitable, and a five year program/overhaul was initiated. This was in part due to a number of the tests being compromised, and in part due to the medical, psych and learning/education experts believing that better screening tools could be applied.
Twenty years ago, mostly the same, but simulation fidelity to actual flying wasn't all that great.
Thirty years ago, once again, the same, thgough there began to be screening quotas cropping up for selected demographics to overcome systemic bias (or the perception thereof). One still had to show that one had the skills to fly, however, to get through it.
Roughly forty years ago, you typically had to have a penis to get assigned to flight training ... but that was in the process of being changed.
Gentleman Aviator
I think the short-ish and serious-ish (sorry chaps) answer to the question is the well-known "stable extravert". Where the psychological differences have arisen (and they surely have) in the discrete time-frames that the OP used, is surely the difference in contemporary definitions of what is generally accepted as "extravert" and what is generally accepted as "stable"?
But in keeping with the way this thread has gone so far, I believe we should remember (and say together!) The Aviators' Prayer:
Oh Lord, pray grant me:
The Wings of an Eagle
The Courage of a Lion
The Eyes of a Hawk ...........
....... and the Balls of an SH Pilot!!!!
But in keeping with the way this thread has gone so far, I believe we should remember (and say together!) The Aviators' Prayer:
Oh Lord, pray grant me:
The Wings of an Eagle
The Courage of a Lion
The Eyes of a Hawk ...........
....... and the Balls of an SH Pilot!!!!
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Monkeys ride bikes, ever seen one fix a puncture??
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The ability to lie spontaneously about;
1. Flying ability.
2. Flying Experience.
3. Sexual Prowess.
4. Drinking ability.
5. What actually happened to make the aircraft go tits-up.
1. Flying ability.
2. Flying Experience.
3. Sexual Prowess.
4. Drinking ability.
5. What actually happened to make the aircraft go tits-up.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
In other words, flexibilty of thought is the key to air power. Bombing back to the stone age was not politically correct.
Jane, your question approaches fallacious reasoning. Do you presume that there is an optimal phsychological type?
There isn't.
Psychological Characteristics Ideal to Military Aviators
There are a variety of characteristics that successful aviators share, but there are significant variations in psychological profile of successful military aviators. You get a mix of the old "Type A" and "Type B" in any ready room. If you didn't, you'd have non trivial problems and friction.
What are the mimimum characteristics common to all?
Is that your question?
There are a few I've noticed over the years that seem to be universal ...
1. Self confidence
2. Passion for learning/finding out/understanding
3. Ability to compartmentalize
4. Ability to learn quickly
5. Ability to use inference
6. Ability to memorize facts in an orderly fashion
7. Ability to listen effectively
8. Ability to multi task
Each of these manifests itself differently in behaviors in a given individual, but those characters of mind are commonly successful.
Ideal?
Be just like me.
There isn't.
Psychological Characteristics Ideal to Military Aviators
There are a variety of characteristics that successful aviators share, but there are significant variations in psychological profile of successful military aviators. You get a mix of the old "Type A" and "Type B" in any ready room. If you didn't, you'd have non trivial problems and friction.
What are the mimimum characteristics common to all?
Is that your question?
There are a few I've noticed over the years that seem to be universal ...
1. Self confidence
2. Passion for learning/finding out/understanding
3. Ability to compartmentalize
4. Ability to learn quickly
5. Ability to use inference
6. Ability to memorize facts in an orderly fashion
7. Ability to listen effectively
8. Ability to multi task
Each of these manifests itself differently in behaviors in a given individual, but those characters of mind are commonly successful.
Ideal?
Be just like me.
Fifty years ago -
1. The ability to drink five pints of beer while standing on ones head without being sick.
2. Being able to survive on twenty quid a month!
3. An addiction to the smell of 100 octane avgas.
1. The ability to drink five pints of beer while standing on ones head without being sick.
2. Being able to survive on twenty quid a month!
3. An addiction to the smell of 100 octane avgas.
When I was sitting down the back, the guy I was happiest flying behind was the one with a wife, three kids, a garden and a great desire to get back on the ground in one piece. Had the same priorities as me.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TTN, quite right, we expected to land safely after every sortie but did not really expect to survive just one mission.
Stated psychological type required was stable extrovert. 20/30 years ago (Cold War), RAF Doc of my acquaintance said most FJ types were (in his opinion) introverts when sober, extroverts when drunk, and borderline unstable always.
Job requirement was a preparedness (but not a desire) to drop a nuclear weapon on a Sov. primary school, daily* if necessary. This doesn't attract too many people who were otherwise considering accountancy.
(* not the same school, obviously. That would be a bit harsh...
Rather a waste of resources too.
n.b. school was assumed to have an HQ under it)
Adlib
Lonewolf - I think we should add never, EVER, giving up.
Job requirement was a preparedness (but not a desire) to drop a nuclear weapon on a Sov. primary school, daily* if necessary. This doesn't attract too many people who were otherwise considering accountancy.
(* not the same school, obviously. That would be a bit harsh...
Rather a waste of resources too.n.b. school was assumed to have an HQ under it)
Adlib
Lonewolf - I think we should add never, EVER, giving up.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York & California
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lonewolf 50
What's an ASTB?
Makes enough sense
Straight forward enough
Well that's logical enough
Affirmative action...
tetteringhead
What defines a stable extravert?
Flyt3est
I thought anybody could do that?
That takes a bit more skill
Lonewolf 50
That's straight forward enough
You couldn't really be very good at comprehending and adapting to enemy tactics otherwise I suppose...
Can you explain exactly what you mean there? Do you mean like rationalization?
Makes sense enough...
You mean to the exact degree?
Initial screening include a battery of tests (ASTB)
demonstrated physical exam criterion met, and various interviews.
You typically need to also have demonstrated the ability to acquire a university degree with better than average marks.
Then, there is initial flight training. This isn't just training, it is also a screening process. Some things you don't find out until people try to do them. Air sense doesn't penetrate all skulls.
Finally, there is the minimum performance standard. If the first two criterion are met, one must still acquire sufficient flying and decision making skills in a finite period of instruction, or the USN or USAF will not keep investing time and money into the prospective aviator.
Finally, there is the minimum performance standard. If the first two criterion are met, one must still acquire sufficient flying and decision making skills in a finite period of instruction, or the USN or USAF will not keep investing time and money into the prospective aviator.
Thirty years ago, once again, the same, thgough there began to be screening quotas cropping up for selected demographics to overcome systemic bias (or the perception thereof). One still had to show that one had the skills to fly, however, to get through it.
tetteringhead
I think the short-ish and serious-ish (sorry chaps) answer to the question is the well-known "stable extravert".
Flyt3est
The ability to lie spontaneously about;
1. Flying ability.
2. Flying Experience.
3. Sexual Prowess.
4. Drinking ability.
1. Flying ability.
2. Flying Experience.
3. Sexual Prowess.
4. Drinking ability.
5. What actually happened to make the aircraft go tits-up.
Lonewolf 50
There are a few I've noticed over the years that seem to be universal ...
1. Self confidence
1. Self confidence
2. Passion for learning/finding out/understanding
3. Ability to compartmentalize
4. Ability to learn quickly
5. Ability to use inference
6. Ability to memorize facts in an orderly fashion
7. Ability to listen effectively
8. Ability to multi task
5. Ability to use inference
6. Ability to memorize facts in an orderly fashion
7. Ability to listen effectively
8. Ability to multi task
Each of these manifests itself differently in behaviors in a given individual
Jane DoH
A Dr. Jerry Berlin has done a lot of work on the subject, as has a number of shrinks on F1 level race drivers, there is some similarities. Dr. Berlin worked for the Israeli AF to select pilots and earned a great deal of respect for it.
I can't say what he learned and how he applied despite several conversations with him, they were more social situations. I honestly don't think the USAF has a real psych profile in mind beyond the tests. It does all sort itself in pilot training, the confident, aggressive types get th fighters.
GF
A Dr. Jerry Berlin has done a lot of work on the subject, as has a number of shrinks on F1 level race drivers, there is some similarities. Dr. Berlin worked for the Israeli AF to select pilots and earned a great deal of respect for it.
I can't say what he learned and how he applied despite several conversations with him, they were more social situations. I honestly don't think the USAF has a real psych profile in mind beyond the tests. It does all sort itself in pilot training, the confident, aggressive types get th fighters.
GF
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought "pilot" and "intelligence" was a dichotomy of terms. :-) Every FI will tell you they could teach monkeys to fly so pilots can not be that much more difficult.How ever over a 16 year period I have been flown by the nearly, if not alcoholic, to the straightest of dry straight arrows. Only two I would not wish to again, though I do believe the feeling is mutual.